is there a Power Station Diagram? (with working Polywell)

If polywell fusion is developed, in what ways will the world change for better or worse? Discuss.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

energyfan
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:49 pm

is there a Power Station Diagram? (with working Polywell)

Postby energyfan » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:49 pm

Hello, I have searched on the internet a bit and couldnt find a power generation plant that might be powered by a Polywell. Does anyone know where I can find any ? (or did anyone make one yet :? )
I looked at some other power generation plants and was wondering what a polywell powered plant might look like (was drawing this plant and didnt know where to start except the usual turbines, dont know about chimneys)........anyway, if theres one can you put down a link .

MSimon
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:12 pm

If pB11 works it will just be a building with thick concrete (radiation shielding, containment) and some honking transformers (which will actually be inverters) and an inverter room.

If it is a D-D machine there will be a steam plant and maybe 10 reactor buildings. I once proposed a geodesic dome as the standard admin bldg for a signature.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Postby KitemanSA » Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:24 pm

If you don't mind looking at an EARLY report, the following link might help.

BTW, this report shows the D-D reactor with heat engines that MSimon mantioned above, not the p11B.

http://www.askmar.com/Fusion_files/EMC2 ... plants.pdf

Torulf2
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: Swedem

Postby Torulf2 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:10 pm

I have read this paper and think I have missed some facts.
In D+D ½ catalysed power plant they use B10 fission in a blanket.
How much of the energy output is from boron fission?
Watt are the fission products?

I also think the way to separate outs the tritium may make some problems.
The reactor may produce T faster than it decay to He3.
The T is slightly radioactive and can not be dumped safe some there. After a time the storage problems will be expensive.
Maybe the T can be burn separately T+T gives He4 and 2n not so energetic as the D+T neutron.

Torulf2
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: Swedem

Postby Torulf2 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:18 pm

There can be another way to look at this.
The T from a BFR is stored as D2O water. The He3 from T decay is feed back to the BFR.
The more T in storage gives more He3 and more He3 in the reactor the less T its produce.
There will be an equilibrium there the T storage produce He3 enough for make the reactor to produce T in same rate as the decay.
Can someone calculate there this equilibrium is? How big storage of T2O water is needed for one BFR?
eded for one BFR?

MSimon
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:44 pm

Torulf2 wrote:There can be another way to look at this.
The T from a BFR is stored as D2O water. The He3 from T decay is feed back to the BFR.
The more T in storage gives more He3 and more He3 in the reactor the less T its produce.
There will be an equilibrium there the T storage produce He3 enough for make the reactor to produce T in same rate as the decay.
Can someone calculate there this equilibrium is? How big storage of T2O water is needed for one BFR?
eded for one BFR?


About 200g/day of B11 is required for 100 MWth. You can work backwards from that as the energy produced is roughly similar.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

D Tibbets
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Postby D Tibbets » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:28 am

In the presumed sucessful DD configured Polywell, the He3 and trituim produced directly or by B10 bombardment by neutrons are both fuel for generating more power. Once harvested, processed and reentroduced into the reactor the helium 3 may be silghtly more complex to burn due to bremmstralung, etc, but the tritium should be much more easy to do with deutrium than the parent DD reaction. So, in this sense, the tritium is not a waste product that would need to be stored but is a 'bred' fuel that would hopefully produce enough additional energy to offset it's handling and processing costs.
And the Helium 3 could be saved for use in low neutron producing reactors, like in ships, or other applications where the weight and volume nessisary for neutron shielding are major concerns.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

MSimon
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:40 am

D Tibbets wrote:In the presumed sucessful DD configured Polywell, the He3 and trituim produced directly or by B10 bombardment by neutrons are both fuel for generating more power. Once harvested, processed and reentroduced into the reactor the helium 3 may be silghtly more complex to burn due to bremmstralung, etc, but the tritium should be much more easy to do with deutrium than the parent DD reaction. So, in this sense, the tritium is not a waste product that would need to be stored but is a 'bred' fuel that would hopefully produce enough additional energy to offset it's handling and processing costs.
And the Helium 3 could be saved for use in low neutron producing reactors, like in ships, or other applications where the weight and volume nessisary for neutron shielding are major concerns.

Dan Tibbets


The difference in weight for neutron shielding is not terribly significant. D-D vs B11 at worst is 2 to 1. And D-D is on the same order as a fission nuke. It is all based on 1/10th thickness. A fission nuke has about 1E12 n/sq cm sec. That is 12 1/10th thicknesses. D-D might be around 1E14. That is 14 1/10th thicknesses. B11 might be around 1E7. That is 7 1/10th thicknesses. All to get you down to 1 n/sq cm sec.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

kunkmiester
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:51 pm
Contact:

Postby kunkmiester » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:01 am

What kind of radiation would need to be shielded in a PB11 reaction? Call it cheesy, but I thought it'd cool to have windows up top of the reactor to let that cool bluish-white light out.
Evil is evil, no matter how small

MSimon
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:55 am

kunkmiester wrote:What kind of radiation would need to be shielded in a PB11 reaction? Call it cheesy, but I thought it'd cool to have windows up top of the reactor to let that cool bluish-white light out.


Lead glass windows of sufficient thickness with a borated water pre shield would probably do.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.


Return to “Implications”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests