Polywell = Navy Advantage

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zbarlici
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Polywell = Navy Advantage

Post by zbarlici »

... i`m very inclined to believe that if the polywell is successful it will remain a secret for years to come. It could very well give the US Navy more of an advantage(fuel savings = more quantity), and so act to strengthen the US`s power over the seas - not that the US needs it as it already dominates, but it would strengthen. What do YOU think. What is more important to the US congress? Technological advantage over other nations, or solving some of the economy`s problems? Which comes first? I don`t know how to make a poll.

MSimon
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Re: Polywell = Navy Advantage

Post by MSimon »

zbarlici wrote:... i`m very inclined to believe that if the polywell is successful it will remain a secret for years to come. It could very well give the US Navy more of an advantage(fuel savings = more quantity), and so act to strengthen the US`s power over the seas - not that the US needs it as it already dominates, but it would strengthen. What do YOU think. What is more important to the US congress? Technological advantage over other nations, or solving some of the economy`s problems? Which comes first? I don`t know how to make a poll.
Look at the current global turmoil. It is funded by oil.

Spreading the Polywell reduces the capacity of our enemies because it eliminates energy as a choke point.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Nanos
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Post by Nanos »

If other countries know the technology works, then at the very least they can start their own development work, so will only be a few years behind. (Not to mention someone might steal the existing working plans/designs.)

Roger
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Post by Roger »

Stealing something open source is a little tough. I'm assuming that CHina has an IEC program. As does Japan.
I like the p-B11 resonance peak at 50 KV acceleration. In2 years we'll know.

bcolias
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Re: Polywell = Navy Advantage

Post by bcolias »

zbarlici wrote:... i`m very inclined to believe that if the polywell is successful it will remain a secret for years to come. It could very well give the US Navy more of an advantage(fuel savings = more quantity), and so act to strengthen the US`s power over the seas - not that the US needs it as it already dominates, but it would strengthen. What do YOU think. What is more important to the US congress? Technological advantage over other nations, or solving some of the economy`s problems? Which comes first? I don`t know how to make a poll.
If its actively used on navy ships, it won't remain a secret for long. Once the secret is out, there are enough details already available that alternate developers won't be far behind. This is a disruptive technology, and will tend to disrupt most those nations that rely on selling oil as a major source of its revenue. Many of those nations tend to have tyranical governments that fund terrorism world wide. I could only predict good things that would come from the Polywell technology being proliferated in the world.
-Bill

rj40
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Post by rj40 »

One BFR is probably worth many soldiers/sailors (may the great maker bless them). Even though these things would be replacing coal fired power plants (at least at first), the psychological blow could be huge to those dictator and terrorist and police state types that get so much of their funding from western consumers. I’ll bet that if this pans out, the Navy gives it the widest distribution they can. It sure would be nice to see President Obama presenting plans for a working pB11 BFR to the United Nations. Perhaps on July 4th, 2009. Maybe offering to help build them in Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic States and, what the hell, even France (must say that I rather like France, but that’s just me). Oh yeah, and India too.
And South Carolina! And Oklahoma! And Arizona! And North Dakota! And New Mexico! … And Michigan!!!! Yeaaaahhhh!

This could only be rivaled by President Bush announcing same on US television on Christmas Day 2008. And after explaining how this would change the world, and how we plan on exporting to Ukraine, India, etc., looking into the camera, that smile (some call it a smirk) on his face, and saying something like “the times they are a changin’. Checkmate baby.”

Yeah, yeah, I know. NOT checkmate, but fun to think about.

But none of this will likely happen any time soon, if at all.

How’s that for a Mary Sue?

El Sledgo
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Post by El Sledgo »

(de-lurking, hi everyone)

I think the benefit for humankind would be unsurpassed. As MSimon said above that most of the unrest around the world is because of oil. Take oil out of the equation and we'll see a level playing field. Cheap/free electricity was something even Tesla advocated at the beginning of the 20th century.

He had some rather radical designs, and we can debate until the cows come home how the last century would've panned out if it had become the mainstream energy as opposed to fossil fuel. I would imagine, because his technology could not be metered, and the fact that he was proposing energy for free or at least very cheap, it was snuffed.

I'm hoping that BFR would become a reality in my lifetime, and I think technology of this sort, if/when proven, should be available to anyone with the technical competence to put it together. Heck, I'd volunteer to assemble one if it was that easy :)

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

I would imagine, because his technology could not be metered, and the fact that he was proposing energy for free or at least very cheap, it was snuffed.
It was snuffed because it wouldn't work.

Tesla's understanding of "electronics" was rudimentary. I have read some of his books and he would be laughed at today by any moderately competent electronics engineer. He did the best he could according to his understanding.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

JohnSmith
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Post by JohnSmith »

I'm sure Tesla would be laughed at by today's electrical engineers. Just like Nebel or Bussard might well be laughed at by plasma physicists in a hundred years.

The Wardenclyffe tower was never completed due to financial reasons, though.
Every version of that history I've read points to the money running out.

Whether he could have done it or not, I don't know. But he had demonstrated wireless power transfer before.

Ah! and I just found a wonderful quote.
It is not a dream, it is a simple feat of scientific electrical engineering, only expensive — blind, faint-hearted, doubting world!
Humanity is not yet sufficiently advanced to be willingly led by the discoverer's keen searching sense. But who knows? Perhaps it is better in this present world of ours that a revolutionary idea or invention instead of being helped and patted, be hampered and ill-treated in its adolescence — by want of means, by selfish interest, pedantry, stupidity and ignorance; that it be attacked and stifled; that it pass through bitter trials and tribulations, through the strife of commercial existence. So do we get our light. So all that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combatted, suppressed — only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Wireless power transfer is nothing. It is called radio.

Efficient wireless power transfer is quite something else.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

Even efficient wireless power transfer (we can manage maybe 30% efficiency now over decent distance using microwaves and very big dishes) is not the same as free power.

Best wishes, Tom

IntLibber
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Post by IntLibber »

tomclarke wrote:Even efficient wireless power transfer (we can manage maybe 30% efficiency now over decent distance using microwaves and very big dishes) is not the same as free power.

Best wishes, Tom
quite so. However, JP Morgan was Tesla's backer at the time. When he heard Tesla wanted free broadcast power to be a government service funded by taxes, he dropped the project like a rock.

Inductive power transmission is rather efficient, compared to microwaves, its just not directional.

There is a reason why it is a felony to use devices that generate power from radio broadcasts, or from transmission lines you do not own.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

There is a reason why it is a felony to use devices that generate power from radio broadcasts, or from transmission lines you do not own.
In the early days of the transistor "free power" radios were quite the rage. The power collected by the antenna was used to power audio amplifiers to increase the sound level of the detected audio.

I do believe that collecting free power from transmission lines should be illegal. Some one has to pay for it. It should be the user. Otherwise you get into the situation of many 3rd world countries where there are many illegal taps on the power system which reduces the incentives to extend the system.

And you know - taxing X to pay for Y's power is not free.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

alexjrgreen
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Re: Polywell = Navy Advantage

Post by alexjrgreen »

MSimon wrote:Look at the current global turmoil. It is funded by oil.

Spreading the Polywell reduces the capacity of our enemies because it eliminates energy as a choke point.
And the next choke point is water:

http://www.water.org/waterpartners.aspx?pgID=887

http://www.wired.com/science/planeteart ... folio_0618

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detay ... ink=136183

With fusion energy, it might be viable to pump desalinated seawater uphill... or even to consider replenishing the glaciers...
Ars artis est celare artem.

alexjrgreen
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Post by alexjrgreen »

MSimon wrote:Tesla's understanding of "electronics" was rudimentary. I have read some of his books and he would be laughed at today by any moderately competent electronics engineer. He did the best he could according to his understanding.
He was an experimentalist. Perhaps the best in many a year.

That said, Tesla may have understood Maxwell better than his critics.

Heavyside's version of Maxwell's equations, and the vector methods that go with it, treat energy separately from momentum. Maxwell used quaternions, which are harder to use but do the bookkeeping better.

http://www.ptep-online.com/index_files/ ... -17-03.PDF
Ars artis est celare artem.

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