Vanadium Redox Batteries

Discuss life, the universe, and everything with other members of this site. Get to know your fellow polywell enthusiasts.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
Scupperer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 3:31 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Vanadium Redox Batteries

Postby Scupperer » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:55 pm

The latest issue of Discover Magazine had an interesting article on recent developments of Vanadium Redox Batteries, so I looked a bit more into it.

Here's a link to their web page:
http://www.vrb.unsw.edu.au/
Or Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery

It's a pretty neat solution to energy storage and divergent from most current battery research, and it looks like they've solved some pretty big battery problems:

1. No cross contamination through ion-diffusion. It uses Vanadium electrolytes on either side of the element, so the element never corrodes.
2. It can be recharged an order of magnitude more times than conventional batteries. (1000's vs. 100's)
3. Since it's a flow battery, it can be recharged either by replacing the electrolytes, or electrically. Imagine an "Electrolyte Station", where the pump first empties your tank of spent fluid, then refills it with charged electrolytes. Or, you could just plug your car in at home and avoid the stop. I can't help but think of a future where "gas" stations have a BFR devoted to recharging spent electrolytes for Vanadomobile fleets.
4. They've managed to get the energy density to about 25 Wh/g, and think they can get it up to 35 Wh/g, which will put it on par with lead/acid batteries. Still nowhere near other battery capacities, but the other advantages might outweigh this.
5. Ability for high initial discharge rates (up to 400% of battery capacity), and full discharge capacity without damaging the battery.

Drawback: cost. Currently, the batteries costs about $500/kwh capacity.
This is solvable if they can garner enough interest to scale up production, which current investment in solar farms and wind farms should do. These alternative technologies will need storage for down times; storage that can kick in immediately and at high demands.

I'd love a house-sized one; one that could hold about 3 days worth of power after a hurricane blows through. Then I'd also invest in solar and just go gridless, right in the middle of the city.
Perrin Ehlinger

MSimon
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:13 pm


scareduck
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:03 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby scareduck » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:23 pm


djolds1
Posts: 1296
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:03 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby djolds1 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:19 pm

Vae Victis

MSimon
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:31 pm


djolds1
Posts: 1296
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:03 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby djolds1 » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:18 pm

Vae Victis

hanelyp
Posts: 2255
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby hanelyp » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:14 pm


MSimon
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:34 am


jmc
Posts: 427
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:16 am
Location: Ireland
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby jmc » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:35 pm


Scupperer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 3:31 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Postby Scupperer » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:24 pm

Perrin Ehlinger

MSimon
Posts: 14331
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Contact:

Postby MSimon » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:40 am


Nanos
Posts: 341
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:57 pm
Location: Treasure Island
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby Nanos » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:29 am


Scupperer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 3:31 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Postby Scupperer » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:16 pm

A guy from called me the other day, after I left a request on their web page for more information.

Apparently, these people have licensed the technology from the Australian University that developed it, and they hold the license for most of the developed world.

After talking with him a bit, he said right now the company's focus is on large-scale uses for power plant load-leveling, and for remote uses (mostly telecom towers) which are currently powered primarily by diesel generators.

The remote units that they currently build are in the 5 to 20KW size range, and run about $50k, they recommend maintenance once per year, but replacement of battery components are expected in the range of 15 years. Pumps and tubes for the electrolytes may require more frequent replacement. How much time power is needed is adjustable just by changing the size of the storage tanks for the electrolytes. I neglected to get a price range from him on what the electrolytes themselves currently cost, either on a kwh basis, or a volume basis.

Primary use of the remote units, currently, is for telecom sites that run on diesel generators. Usually such sites have 2 generators, which are cycled for maintenance, and there's a big fuel storage tank. Maintenance is expensive, and fuel is expensive. Installing a VRB system apparently cuts fuel use, and generator use, by approximately 1/2; the VRB stores excess power during generator run times, and once fully charged, allows the generators to cycle off (or idle - not sure) while the telecom draws power off the VRB.

I asked him about whether they expected to hit a cost curve and see prices come down; he refused to commit to a time frame guess, but was naturally enthusiastic that they would.

So, I'll just keep watching these guys, and see what happens. A current whole-house back-up generator runs about $10-$15k (turn-key), so it's definitely not an economical consideration for personal use... yet. If they beat the $20k mark, then it might be worth consideration for coupling it up with some thin-film solar for residential/small commercial uses.
Perrin Ehlinger


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1236: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 6 guests