Will Europe wake up?

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williatw
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Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:
williatw wrote: After all the 21th century (1st century where American women (& most Western women) have had the vote in its entirety) so far is allot less bloody in relative terms than the 20th Century was by now;

You have got to be kidding. From where I sit, it's looking like we are about to see the sort of bloodshed that was unimaginable in the 20th century. Iran with Nukes? And Rockets? Ya gotta be kiddin me!
Or they already have nukes maybe; but I stand by my estimate; so far the 21th century is far less bloody than the 20th was at the same point in time.


williatw wrote: near end of 1915 WWI raging eventually killing 10 million plus; Russo-Japanese war, Boer War, Genocide of the Belgian Congo (5-10 million or so). They (your womenfolk) might argue that terrorist attacks and the war(s) we have had so far pale in comparison, even though our weapons today are much more destructive than what they had. Perhaps women having the right to vote and being in more positions of power now than then might have something to do with that regardless of whatever other problems you think that has caused.
Forgot to mention the slaughter of the Armenians by the Turks; that started in about 1915, so add a few million more to my total.

Diogenes
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Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by Diogenes »

williatw wrote:
Diogenes wrote:In 2008 I could buy a Whataburger with Cheese for $2.52. Now it is very close to $5.00. Inflation has gone crazy. A Quart of oil was $0.85. Now it's $4.00. Milk has Doubled. My 2008 dollars are now worth almost 1/2 of what they were. ~50% taxation by stealth, and games played with the money supply.
From the CPI calculator: $2.52 then (2008) is now worth $2.78. Either the CPI is a f*%k*#g liar (a possibility I concede) or your being gyped somehow Dio. I respectfully suggest you ask the aforementioned allegedly too old to acquire any "sense" Mrs. Diogenes for tips on bargain shopping.

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

I see your problem there. Did you know you have a ".gov" at the end of your calculator? No, No, it's quite alright. Anyone could have overlooked that.


Tuna fish was $0.50 / can in 2008. It is now $0.95 / can. Used Tires were $15.00-$20.00 back in 2008. They are now $35.00-$40.00. Car batteries you could get for $50.00 in 2008. Now $85.00-$100.



williatw wrote: Speaking of inflation I just filled up my Honda Accord; cost me $1.649/gallon at Shell (counting my $0.10 off because of my Kroger plus card). Don't remember but I very much doubt gas was anywhere near half the price $.82/gallon in 2008.

http://www.gasbuddy.com/

Seriously? On the Gasoline thing? Did you not see it skyrocket up to near $4.00/gallon and only start coming down in this last year? It was that Bakken field of North Dakota and the Shale Oil extraction that torpedoed the cost of gasoline. It was certainly nothing that Obama did. If anything, he made things worse by opposing the Keystone pipeline.


Yes, fuel has recently dropped down to 2007 levels, but in spite of, not because of Obama. Oh, he might get some credit for ISIS cheap selling stolen oil from Iraq, but other than that, he didn't do anything that was helpful in bringing down the price of oil.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by Diogenes »

williatw wrote:

Whether they did or not you could hardly blame the women of the world for that; after all the Bolshevik revolution in Russia was in 1917-1918 well before American women got the vote (to say nothing of Russian women who didn't have it then or really now). Don't see how the womenfolk of the world had much to do with Mao taking over in China, or Pol Pot in Cambodia or any of the other Communist takeovers.


During the Bolshevik movement women were instrumental in taking over Tsarist Russia. They would walk up to the Soldiers and give them flowers. Had it been nothing but men, the soldiers would have probably fired on them. As it was, many surrendered and joined the movement.


But no, women didn't play that great of a role in pushing or supporting the communist takeover on the front end, but many of them certainly ended up supporting it on the back end.


This one comes to mind.

Image
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by Diogenes »

williatw wrote:Or they already have nukes maybe; but I stand by my estimate; so far the 21th century is far less bloody than the 20th was at the same point in time.

We are little more into this century than they were into that century. There's plenty enough war going on right now, and I have a great deal of confidence in it's ability to spread.



williatw wrote: Forgot to mention the slaughter of the Armenians by the Turks; that started in about 1915, so add a few million more to my total.

Ah, our friends the Turks. Oddly enough they are instrumental in the warlike goings-ons we are hearing about now. It appears ISIS has been selling their stolen Iraqi oil through Turkey. They've also been passing through the latest invasion of Europe by Young Muslim Males. But of course Islamic Nut-Job Erdogan is our friend.


Ataturk would be rolling in his grave.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote: Tuna fish was $0.50 / can in 2008. It is now $0.95 / can. Used Tires were $15.00-$20.00 back in 2008. They are now $35.00-$40.00. Car batteries you could get for $50.00 in 2008. Now $85.00-$100.



I am willing to concede the possibility the CPI is bullshit....do you have a better source? Although if there is so much hidden inflation a possibility I am willing to consider how do we explain how the price of gold is tanking so much? With all the money printing/borrowing the price of gold & other commodities (and even oil) should be in the stratosphere by now. Look how much the collapse in oil prices is creaming the Russian economy? Let us see how much longer Putin is able to stay in office. The Russian people will tire of his foreign adventurisms in Ukraine & Syria once things go south at home.



Diogenes wrote:Yes, fuel has recently dropped down to 2007 levels, but in spite of, not because of Obama. Oh, he might get some credit for ISIS cheap selling stolen oil from Iraq, but other than that, he didn't do anything that was helpful in bringing down the price of oil.
Who said anything about me giving Obama any credit for cheap gas? Didn't mention his name Dio; know he is your favorite president but he hates fracking with a passion; would luv there to be a BP spill event type event with fracking so he could declare a moratorium on the whole thing. He would love it if gas prices shot up.

ladajo
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Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by ladajo »

how do we explain how the price of gold is tanking so much?
Dude, how young are you??? I know you come across as young a lot, but this statement really pegs you as either completely oblivious, or very young.

In the year 2000, gold was around $360/ounce. It peaked on this run in 2011 at around $1,900/ounce. It is still above $1,000/ounce, while to be fair in a downtrend. But still more than double its previous low. The lowest it has been in almost 100 years of data is around $220 in 1970.

What is interesting is the thesis that the price of gold always climbs before a major conflict. Something for you to think about.
The argument is that it climbs as economic entities (including governments) hoard in preparation for conflict reserves. Then as the war is joined, the price of gold drops as governments in particular start drawing on the accumulated reserve to support war efforts.
On this theme, the last major jump in gold (ironically comparable to current times) was during the peaking years of the cold war when many of us thought that the Soviets were going to say "screw you" and initiate the fight.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

ladajo wrote:
how do we explain how the price of gold is tanking so much?
Dude, how young are you??? I know you come across as young a lot, but this statement really pegs you as either completely oblivious, or very young.

In the year 2000, gold was around $360/ounce. It peaked on this run in 2011 at around $1,900/ounce. It is still above $1,000/ounce, while to be fair in a downtrend. But still more than double its previous low.
Old enough to know an old bullshit artist when I am talking to one. As much as gold bounces around any fool can cherry pick numbers

In December 2008 (the year Dio was talking about not 2000) we were at $984/ounce now we are about $1070. (And if this is about the Obama tenure as Dio seems to think it is, Obama assumed office in Jan 2009; so that would actually be $1036/ounce according to the chart)



http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/histori ... year-chart
Last edited by williatw on Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paperburn1
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Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by paperburn1 »

Gold prices are currently an artificial financial construct right now.
Why just compare prices of golds with other precious/ industrial metals and you can see the swing out of the norm. They are slowly correcting.(thank goodness a fast correction would blow the economy again.)
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:During the Bolshevik movement women were instrumental in taking over Tsarist Russia. They would walk up to the Soldiers and give them flowers. Had it been nothing but men, the soldiers would have probably fired on them. As it was, many surrendered and joined the movement. But no, women didn't play that great of a role in pushing or supporting the communist takeover on the front end, but many of them certainly ended up supporting it on the back end.


This one comes to mind.

Image

And German women used to faint/adjulation at the sight/sound of Hitler...see? its all their fault they pretty much own everything that later happened. The world's women are mostly responsible for all/most of the genocidal carnage (especially the commie ones) of the 20th Century!? Come on Dio this has got to be one of your weakest post yet.

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by ladajo »

williatw wrote:
ladajo wrote:
how do we explain how the price of gold is tanking so much?
Dude, how young are you??? I know you come across as young a lot, but this statement really pegs you as either completely oblivious, or very young.

In the year 2000, gold was around $360/ounce. It peaked on this run in 2011 at around $1,900/ounce. It is still above $1,000/ounce, while to be fair in a downtrend. But still more than double its previous low.
Old enough to know an old bullshit artist when I am talking to one. As much as gold bounces around any fool can cherry pick numbers

In December 2008 (the year Dio was talking about not 2000) we were at $984/ounce now we are about $1070. (And if this is about the Obama tenure as Dio seems to think it is, Obama assumed office in Jan 2009; so that would actually be $1036/ounce according to the chart)



http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/histori ... year-chart

Thanks for posting a chart to help make my argument. It shows exactly what I was saying.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by Diogenes »

williatw wrote:
Diogenes wrote: Tuna fish was $0.50 / can in 2008. It is now $0.95 / can. Used Tires were $15.00-$20.00 back in 2008. They are now $35.00-$40.00. Car batteries you could get for $50.00 in 2008. Now $85.00-$100.



I am willing to concede the possibility the CPI is bullshit....do you have a better source?



From time to time people link me to all sorts of sources that say the official government numbers are bullsh*t, but I don't pay a great deal of attention to them. What I do pay a great deal of attention to is how the price of everyday and yearly consumables has drastically increased. Everything but electronic products has skyrocketed in price.


williatw wrote:
Although if there is so much hidden inflation a possibility I am willing to consider how do we explain how the price of gold is tanking so much? With all the money printing/borrowing the price of gold & other commodities (and even oil) should be in the stratosphere by now.

I saw an explanation for that which someone had posted a few weeks ago, but I no longer recall the explanation they gave. I vaguely remember it had something to do with what China was doing economically.


williatw wrote: Look how much the collapse in oil prices is creaming the Russian economy? Let us see how much longer Putin is able to stay in office. The Russian people will tire of his foreign adventurisms in Ukraine & Syria once things go south at home.

Yes, the cheap oil is really hurting the Russian bottom line, but I'm thinking his populace is going to rally behind him after the Turkish shoot down of their aircraft.




williatw wrote:
Diogenes wrote:Yes, fuel has recently dropped down to 2007 levels, but in spite of, not because of Obama. Oh, he might get some credit for ISIS cheap selling stolen oil from Iraq, but other than that, he didn't do anything that was helpful in bringing down the price of oil.
Who said anything about me giving Obama any credit for cheap gas? Didn't mention his name Dio; know he is your favorite president but he hates fracking with a passion; would luv there to be a BP spill event type event with fracking so he could declare a moratorium on the whole thing. He would love it if gas prices shot up.


He has made it quite clear that he hates for OTHER people to use fossil fuels or to make any money from them. Also his buddy Warren Buffet owns the railways that currently haul the oil from Canada, and so you can assume there is pressure from that very influential fellow to keep the status quo ala the Keystone pipeline.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by Diogenes »

williatw wrote:
And German women used to faint/adjulation at the sight/sound of Hitler...see? its all their fault they pretty much own everything that later happened. The world's women are mostly responsible for all/most of the genocidal carnage (especially the commie ones) of the 20th Century!?

I am not attempting to suggest they are, merely that they helped in the Case of Russia. Perhaps they made the difference between a successful seizure of power and a failure. I don't have sufficient knowledge to say for sure one way or the other.





williatw wrote: Come on Dio this has got to be one of your weakest post yet.



If by the term "weak" you mean lacking reference support, you are correct. I have not made a very good case for the point I am attempting to make.


I believe it is correct, but it would take too much effort to even make a very good case for it. I've seen it claimed that the women's vote has elected all the worst Democrats to ever hold the office of the Presidency, (starting with Roosevelt) and that it has always leans heavily to the left since it began. I find this claim to be completely plausible, because that has also been my experience over my lifetime.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

choff
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by choff »

Any of you guys read a Phillip K. Dick story called Solar Lottery. The premise is the future world leader is chosen by winning a world wide lottery. In a way it makes perfect sense, who makes a more successful leader, a guy who's highly qualified, or a guy who happens to be incredibly lucky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Lottery
CHoff

hanelyp
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Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by hanelyp »

Sortition (election by lottery) should work very well for a legislative body of 1000 or so seats. For smaller legislatures, or (God forbid) executive positions, the randomness becomes a problem.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

choff
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by choff »

In Dicks story the lottery was also used to choose a designated assassin for the new leader.
CHoff

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