Will Europe wake up?

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Diogenes
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by Diogenes »

Pertinent to this topic is the sort of people Sweden is hunting for as it's most wanted criminals.



For years I pointed out how hilarious it was for "Sweden's Most Wanted" (http://www.swedensmostwanted.se/) to feature predominantly Arab Muslim men. Out of several pages of photos you might find the occasional "Johnson", or "Bjorkstrand", or some other Swedish sounding name, but the vast majority were names like "Mohammed" or "Abdullah", or "Rashid".

Muslim Arabs and middle easterners make up the bulk of the photos. Very few "Swedish" looking people on the "Most Wanted" Criminal list. Here's a few examples which are still somehow lingering out there on the net.

ImageImageImage



Of course that web site has been taken down and is no longer available to laugh at. I guess the Swedes figured it did not serve the interests of diversity, and was lending support to the claims of people who pointed out their folly in letting so many non-assimilating people into their country.


It's not just rape. In Sweden, Crime of all sorts has gone through the roof in the last decade.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by Diogenes »

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:A single man with a gun would have shocked the attackers and thrown them off their game. Eight of them would have routed the attackers. What an amazing fluke that so many chose to listen to their stupid wives instead of doing what a man would have done instinctively. This sort of punctuates the point made by my previous posting.


UPDATED: Mass Public Shooting in Florida occurred in ANOTHER gun-free zone: 50+ dead in a shooting at an Orlando nightclub


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From the UK Daily Mail:


The suspected Islamic extremist who killed about 50 people after taking party-goers hostage inside a gay club in Orlando has been identified.

Law enforcement sources have identified the shooter, who was wielding an assault rifle and a handgun, as US citizen Omar Mateen, from Port St. Lucie in Florida.

The gunman, who was born to Afghan parents, was carrying a suspicious device, possibly a suicide vest, when he opened fire on the dance floor inside Pulse in the early hours of this morning.

At least 50 people were killed and 53 others were injured in the shooting in the deadliest mass shooting in US history. . . .

To make things worse, it took three hours from the time of the attack until the police entered the building.


5 a.m. About three hours after the standoff began, Orlando police chief John Mina says the decision was made to storm the club and “rescue patrons (hiding) in a bathroom” and others still trapped inside the club in an effort to minimize loss of life. The police, Mina said, used a BearCat armored rescue vehicle to “get through a club wall.” . . .
Florida’s law on where people can carry guns is very clear:

From the relevant statute (790.06):


(12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into: . . .
12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;

And of course that disarming would also apply not just to the patrons of the club but to the staff as well; the manager, bartenders, servers, the inside security (bouncers and his staff) who might have had concealed carry permits. Staff (especially the bouncers) would likely not be drinking on the job but are still banned from carrying legal licensed concealed firearms.
To make things worse, it took three hours from the time of the attack until the police entered the building.
And there was apparently an exchange of gunfire between the shooter before he entered the club and a off-duty police officer working security at the club; he elected to not follow the killer inside, obviously calling for backup instead. The backup (SWAT) arrived, apparently decided it was a "hostage" situation, decided to "secure" the premises and waited 3 hours before deciding to storm the place and stop the killing. Sounds like a replay of Columbine; there was an exchange of fire between them and a police officer (or security) who elected not to follow them inside the school as well, instead calling for backup (more cops) who delayed again before entering the school with disastrous results for the kids inside.


http://crimeresearch.org/2016/06/mass-s ... nightclub/

Tom Ligon
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Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by Tom Ligon »

Now, will someone please explain to me how this Amarillo Walmart thing happened? Took the police two hours to get there and shoot the miscreant? Why didn't well-armed Texans have this in hand in two minutes?

paperburn1
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Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by paperburn1 »

An early investigation has led police to believe that Moghaddam entered the store located near I-27 and Georgia around 11 a.m. and fired at least one gunshot toward the ceiling. He then forcibly took the manager into an office in the back of the store, possibly belonging to the second employee who was held hostage.
Shortly after, multiple police agencies from across the area quickly responded to the scene. Personnel from APD, Department of Public Safety, the Randall County Sheriff's Office and others blocked off the surrounding area to motorists as they secured the area.

SWAT officers entered the Walmart shortly after noon and found one of the hostages uninjured near the office. The tactical team made their way inside of the office and reportedly found an armed Moghaddam and the manager inside. Moghaddam was then shot by two SWAT officers and is believed to have died immediately.
Neither of the hostages suffered injuries. sounds like there was no need for active public intervention. In NC where I live if you carry you are not allowed to be proactive if you see something happening. The law states you can only protect yourself and others from harm. It does not give you the right to "hunt" down the bad guy. that is the LEO job. Police on scene in minutes and no active shooter.

The same played out in Orlando, as soon as the shooter was confronted by a armed ODP he went into a bathroom and took hostages. active shooting time was less than 3 minutes. actual shoot time was probably measured in seconds.
the only reason the body count was so high was he was shooting into a packed night club full of people. one round was most likely hitting several people at a time.
In both cases as soon as the shooter was confronted the shooting stopped. contrary to how the press explained in both cases police were on the scene in minutes.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

williatw
Posts: 1912
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Location: Ohio

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

paperburn1 wrote:The same played out in Orlando, as soon as the shooter was confronted by a armed ODP he went into a bathroom and took hostages. active shooting time was less than 3 minutes. actual shoot time was probably measured in seconds.
They (law enforcement in force) may have arrived at the scene in minutes (after the initial confrontation with armed security) but it was 3 hours before they decided to storm the place and end it. Do we really know how soon and over what period of time the 50 or so killed and scores more wounded were shot? Whether "active shooting time was less than 3 minutes" or not there could have many pauses in between shots as he found or pursued fleeing/hiding persons in the probably badly lit club.

paperburn1 wrote: the only reason the body count was so high was he was shooting into a packed night club full of people. one round was most likely hitting several people at a time.
Yes shooting into a packed nightclub full of disarmed people who couldn't shoot back; including the likely sober club staff; like the night manager, bartenders, and bouncers some of whom may have had concealed carry permits, but effectively disarmed by Florida law. Trump is the only major party presidential candidate (presumptive nominee) explicitly pointing this obvious fact out:

Trump on Orlando: If some of those people had guns, carnage wouldn’t have been as bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdrwEQ86sQ
paperburn1 wrote:In both cases as soon as the shooter was confronted the shooting stopped. contrary to how the press explained in both cases police were on the scene in minutes.
Agreed...too bad he wasn't "confronted" sooner rather than later by armed staff; people who had a very strong incentive not to wait three hours before doing much.

paperburn1
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Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by paperburn1 »

Do not get me wrong, I agree with all your points. The issue I was bringing up was it was being portrayed by the press is there was nothing anyone could have done so we need to disarm to keep the guns away from the nuts.
And with that I disagree, It was armed intervention in both cases that stopped the initial assault and most likely saved many lives.
Point to ponder
How many mass murders happen at gun free zones as compared too areas you are allowed to carry?
How many less would have been killed it the bar was allowed to have armed security?
We had an incident in our town where a armed bouncer literally prevented a mass murder at a bar. A man(19 years old and not legal to carry a gun) was refused entry and he went home and got his gun and came back and started to unload into the bar. the bouncer had a gun (not legal to have at a bar in NC), placed himself in the door between the gunman and bar patrons and returned fire stopping the assault by wounding the gunman but ended up being mortally wounded in the process. He saved many lives and only one patron was minor wounded. Funny how you did not hear that in the news.
side note the bouncer was a former marine.

and one more point I would like to bring up; a concealed carry permit does not give you any right or permission to actively seek out a bad guy and shoot him. The permit only allows you to protect yourself and those around you until you get out of harms way. LEOs job is to bring down the bad guy.
while in NC you can stand your ground it is entirely different if you actively seek out the bad guy.
(we can discus the moral implications verse the legal ones later)
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

williatw
Posts: 1912
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Location: Ohio

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

paperburn1 wrote:How many mass murders happen at gun free zones as compared too areas you are allowed to carry?
Since at least 1950, all but two public mass shootings in America have taken place where general citizens are banned from carrying guns. In Europe, there have been no exceptions. Every mass public shooting — and there have been plenty of mass shooting in Europe — has occurred in a gun-free zone. In addition, they have had three of the six worst K–12 school shootings, and Europe experienced by far the worst mass public shooting perpetrated by a single individual (Norway in 2011, which from the shooting alone left 67 people dead and 110 wounded).
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -john-lott

williatw
Posts: 1912
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Location: Ohio

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

SUBJ: The Orlando cop Dear Jerry,

Please keep prompting for further facts on the Orlando first-responder-that-wasn’t. Like you I have been unable to find any significant details about his actions. Or lack thereof.

There is this:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police ... -shooting/

But the article raises more questions than it answers. Timelines given and other details are vague. Very vague. I opine intentionally so.

The very premise of an armed professional on the scene is to run immediate interference and interception in cases precisely like this.

Didn’t happen. Full details of this are needful and none seem to be forthcoming. Or sought.

T’was not always thus! I am minded of Jeff Cooper’s story of an old-west Arizona sheriff’s instruction to his deputies when offered

violence: “Respond with disconcerting alacrity!” Didn’t happen in Orlando. Just didn’t.

The (always unspoken) premise of the gun-ban Moonbats is “give up your guns and the police will protect you.” Yeah. Right.

It is well-known in today’s Kop Kultur that “Job one is going home safe at shift-end.” Well all the cops did and 49 civilians didn’t. The equation damned well doesn’t balance.

It seems the OPD is indulging in the time-honored government agency practice of misdirecting public interest until the Usual Suspects (i.e.

you, me and the NRA) have been safely court-martialed, shot and sent to the Russian Front. Six months from now there’s be a chorus of “At this point what difference does it make??”

And it seems to be working. Indeed, yours is the only internet board on which I have even seen the topic raised.

But there are those (of us!) who smell a rat.

Please keep asking, Jerry. Your bully pulpit has longer legs than you may realize.




https://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosman ... ting-mail/

williatw
Posts: 1912
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Location: Ohio

Re: Will Europe wake up?

Post by williatw »

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