2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

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palladin9479
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby palladin9479 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:28 am


JoeP
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby JoeP » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:14 pm


tomclarke
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby tomclarke » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 pm

http://sci.esa.int/venus-express/34067-venus-vs-earth/

or, more detailed:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Venus-r ... effect.htm

Working out the details of the GHE is really complex, and few people seem to understand the basics.

For example, the earth's atmosphere is opaque to IR wavelengths. This causes people with knee-jerk reactions to think that CO2 is saturated and increasing it can have no effect.

The issue however is the height in the atmosphere over which radiative transport occurs. That matters because the higher up you go the colder it gets. Altering CO2 concentration changes this "transparent to IR" height.

The theory is well understood, but quite complex, even without clouds. With clouds things are a bit random but luckily we now have good experimental data directly validating the greenhouse effect and quantifying it:

https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2015/02/25/c ... -increase/

hanelyp
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby hanelyp » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:31 am

Don't cite "skeptical science" if you want me to take you seriously. The site is proven anything but skeptical of the IPCC supported garbage.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

tomclarke
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby tomclarke » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:12 pm


palladin9479
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby palladin9479 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:13 am


williatw
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby williatw » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:31 am

Last edited by williatw on Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

palladin9479
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby palladin9479 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:36 am

On an interesting note about Venus's atmosphere is how layered it is. The bottom most layer is composed almost entirely of CO2 and is something like 99% of it's total atmosphere. The pressure is so high that CO2 is no longer a gas, it's become a super critical fluid and behaves accordingly. It's like a giant hot 30km deep Ocean that covers the entire planet. Above that is where you find the SO2 clouds which act to reflect away most visible sunlight while also reflecting down any light that does make it through and bounces off the surface.

Venus's atmosphere is so radically different from Earths that trying to use it as a model for CO2 greenhouse effect is pure stupidity. Earth has a cool H2O ocean that's only 3.7km deep while Venus is a 30km deep "Ocean" comprised of CO2 at super critical temperatures.

palladin9479
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby palladin9479 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:47 am


JoeP
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby JoeP » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:18 pm


tomclarke
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby tomclarke » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:20 am


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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby paperburn1 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:14 pm

You make one incredibly important point. currently we are in a state that our population density is out of proportion with our available energy. If history has shown us anything its that when you reach this level in development; your civilization must find a denser source of energy or fall back to a more sustainable level. Maybe this is the real answer to the Fermi paradox.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

MSimon
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby MSimon » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:20 am

Unless CO2 can explain this there is doubt that it can explain anything except plant growth and carbonated water.

Image

from:

What ever is going on in climate - it does not look like CO2 is the driver. In any case it also looks like a 10 degC rise would not be catastrophic.

Diogenes
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby Diogenes » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:18 pm

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
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Re: 2014 only the hottest year on the cooked books...

Postby williatw » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:10 pm

Last edited by williatw on Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.


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