The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

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Diogenes
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The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by Diogenes »

This Crisis Was Foreseeable … Thousands of Years Ago


Image


History lessons, repeated, from George Washington's blog @ Zero Hedge:


We’ve known for 5,000 years that mass spying on one’s own people is always aimed at grabbing power and crushing dissent, not protecting us from bad guys.


We’ve known for 4,000 yearsthat debts need to be periodically written down, or the entire economy will collapse. And see this.


We’ve known for 2,500 years that prolonged war bankrupts an economy.


We’ve known for 2,000 years that wars are based on lies.


We’ve known for 1,900 years that runaway inequality destroys societies.


We’ve known for thousands of years that debasing currencies leads to economic collapse.


We’ve known for millennia that torture is a form of terrorism.


We’ve known for thousands of years that – when criminals are not punished – crime spreads.


We’ve known for hundreds of years that the failure to punish financial fraud destroys economies, as it destroys all trust in the financial system.


We’ve known for centuries that monopolies and the political influence which accompanies too much power in too few hands are dangerous for free markets.


We’ve known for hundreds of yearsthat companies will try to pawn their debts off on governments, and that it is a huge mistake for governments to allow corporate debt to be backstopped by government.


We’ve known for centuriesthat powerful people – unless held to account – will get together and steal from everyone else.


We’ve known for hundreds of years that standing armies and warmongering harm Western civilization.


We’ve known for 200 years that allowing private banks to control credit creation eventually destroys the nation’s prosperity.


We’ve known for two centuries that a fiat money system – where the money supply is not pegged to anything real – is harmful in the long-run.


We’ve known for 200 years that a two-party system quickly becomes corrupted.


We’ve known for over a century that torture produces false and useless information.


We’ve known since the 1930s Great Depression that separating depository banking from speculative investment banking is key to economic stability. See this, this, this, this and this.


We’ve known for 80 years that inflation is a hidden tax.


We’ve known for 79 years that war is a racket that benefits the elites but harms everyone else.


We’ve known since 1988 that quantitative easing doesn’t work to rescue an ailing economy.


We’ve known since 1993 that derivatives such as credit default swaps – if not reined in – could take down the economy. And see this.


We’ve known since 1998 that crony capitalism destroys even the strongest economies, and that economies that are capitalist in name only need major reforms to create accountability and competitive markets.


We’ve known since 2007 or earlier that lax oversight of hedge funds could blow up the economy.


And we knew before the 2008 financial crash and subsequent bailouts that:



*The easy credit policy of the Fed and other central banks, the failure to regulate the shadow banking system, and “the use of gimmicks and palliatives” by central banks hurt the economy

*Anything other than (1) letting asset prices fall to their true market value, (2) increasing savings rates, and (3) forcing companies to write off bad debts “will only make things worse”

*Bailouts of big banks harm the economy

*The Fed and other central banks were simply transferring risk from private banks to governments, which could lead to a sovereign debt crisis


Postscript: Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it … and we’ve known that for a long time.



http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/5 ... eseeab.php
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

MSimon
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by MSimon »

So what are the lessons of Alcohol Prohibition, O Great History Master?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by MSimon »

BTW I think we learned about 75 years ago that it takes three years to go from a very minimal standing army to one capable of fighting a major war with a draft and 50% of the national economy devoted to war fighting.

Following that war it was generally thought to avoid that by having a large (relatively) standing Army, and a war making establishment capable of ramping up relatively rapidly. We are losing those lessons as the people who lived through the learning die off.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

choff
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by choff »

I would disagree about fiat money, there was a gold standard before during and after the great depression, it's existed side by side with the federal reserve system and it hasn't done a thing. Gold is a commodity, nothing more, it's price is controlled by the same market fundamentals as any other commodity, and it's always priced in fiat currency, not the other way around. What's more important is who controls the fiat currency, it's creation and amount in circulation, who has access to credit.

Everything else is pretty much spot on, I would also argue that all the other problems listed(including all societal problems) are derived from the fractional reserve money creation algorithm at the core of the banking system.

Our lives are controlled by one math formula.
CHoff

MSimon
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by MSimon »

Alcohol prohibition was largely the work of religious conservatives who saw it as a way to combat the growing hedonism of urban dwellers; a return to old-time values and morality by attacking immoral lifestyles. The Protestant majority included in this category of 'social undesirables' the Catholics, whom they associated with alcohol use. Ironically, the passage of national prohibition marked the start of the Roaring Twenties, a period of drunken excess and sexual promiscuity that would not be equaled again until the Hippies.

Although alcohol use sharply declined immediately after the passage of prohibition, it immediately began an inexorable climb back up towards pre-ban usage levels. As public sentiment turned against prohibition, it became harder and harder to get juries to convict offenders. Finally admitting defeat, alcohol prohibition, America's "noble experiment", was repealed on December 5, 1933, and an unlucky thirteen years of government intrusion into people's lives ended in wild drunken celebrations.

http://thedea.org/prohibhistory.html
The current Prohibition is doing the same thing the last one did. It spreads the "disease". I guess learning from history is a selective affair. Or totally absent when history is contrary to faith.

This time it will be different. The rallying cry of the anti historical. Right? Left? It doesn't matter.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Diogenes
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:So what are the lessons of Alcohol Prohibition, O Great History Master?


That one is easy. Don't bite off more than you can chew. Whatever your goal, incrementalism works best.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by Diogenes »

choff wrote:I would disagree about fiat money, there was a gold standard before during and after the great depression, it's existed side by side with the federal reserve system and it hasn't done a thing. Gold is a commodity, nothing more, it's price is controlled by the same market fundamentals as any other commodity, and it's always priced in fiat currency, not the other way around. What's more important is who controls the fiat currency, it's creation and amount in circulation, who has access to credit.

And this last sentence nails it. Excessive credit caused the stock market crash of 1929. That all leads back to the fed.

choff wrote: Everything else is pretty much spot on, I would also argue that all the other problems listed(including all societal problems) are derived from the fractional reserve money creation algorithm at the core of the banking system.

Our lives are controlled by one math formula.


There is much to be said in favor of this conjecture.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

GIThruster
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by GIThruster »

There was a fiction series written by a physicist, where the main theme had to do with theft from the masses by the fed, and UFO's were stirred in for good measure. It was actually well written and I was interested to read the next in the series, when I ran into the author online, was about 2005. I don't recall his name now, but it was a compelling read. James Bond meets the X files.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

choff
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by choff »

It isn't Skynet, killer robots or the space aliens that's doing us in, it's an algorithm.
CHoff

Diogenes
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by Diogenes »

choff wrote:It isn't Skynet, killer robots or the space aliens that's doing us in, it's an algorithm.


Do not doubt that the killer robots are coming down the pike.



Currently they are our servants, but what do you suppose will happen when the worm turns?


:)


In all seriousness it's not just an algorithm, it is also the willingness and stupidity of a population which tolerates it.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

choff
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by choff »

The Establishment run foundations took a great interest in the creation of the public school system, their influence is felt to this very day. They made sure the teachers unions would be Socialist indoctrinated, and also made sure that economics(especially money creation) were kept out of public school curriculum. So don't blame the population, to a great extent you can't even blame the Establishment, the algorithm drives their decision making and opinion formation, conscious or subconscious.
CHoff

MSimon
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by MSimon »

Diogenes wrote:
MSimon wrote:So what are the lessons of Alcohol Prohibition, O Great History Master?
That one is easy. Don't bite off more than you can chew. Whatever your goal, incrementalism works best.
I think the lesson is that laws don't affect culture. Or worse they have the opposite of the effect intended.

You know - "If you try to force people to do something they will do the opposite. Otherwise they will do as they damned well please. "

Speaking of damning - this is pretty much the impression a LOT of people have of Republicans.
"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it." - John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.
Let us hope the next Congress does something to reverse that impression.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by MSimon »

choff wrote:The Establishment run foundations took a great interest in the creation of the public school system, their influence is felt to this very day. They made sure the teachers unions would be Socialist indoctrinated, and also made sure that economics(especially money creation) were kept out of public school curriculum. So don't blame the population, to a great extent you can't even blame the Establishment, the algorithm drives their decision making and opinion formation, conscious or subconscious.
We also have this little Problem. The Conservatives spend a lot of effort conserving Progressive policy. Policies they opposed when first proposed.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types -- the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine. Each new blunder of the progressive or prig becomes instantly a legend of immemorial antiquity for the snob. This is called the balance, or mutual check, in our Constitution. — G.K. Chesterton
It is not a new problem. Obviously.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Diogenes
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
MSimon wrote:So what are the lessons of Alcohol Prohibition, O Great History Master?
That one is easy. Don't bite off more than you can chew. Whatever your goal, incrementalism works best.
I think the lesson is that laws don't affect culture. Or worse they have the opposite of the effect intended.


The two things are in a mutually interacting feedback loop. Each one partially drives the other.


Simon, this tendency of yours to look at problems as one thing or the other with seemingly no insight that they interact with each other is not the behavior I would expect from an engineer.



Seldom is anything 100% or 0%.


Culture pushes law, and law pushes culture. Each is the consequence of the effect of the other.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

MSimon
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Re: The essence of Conservatism: Remembering lessons.

Post by MSimon »

Well I have looked at the historical precedent. 1920 to 1933. And we see how the law drove the culture in that era. I was not ignoring the point. That was exactly the point I was making.

The Republicans are despicable for making war on the young, the poor, and Blacks. And not as a byproduct. Intentionally.
"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it." - John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.
It is my hope that the Republican Congress of Jan. 2015 will repent of their error. But given the support of so many folks like you I think that is doubtful.

If they don't repent the incoming Congress could be a harbinger of another Democrat win in 2016. There are some Republicans who have seen the light. But they are only 1/4 of the Party.

Mass murder and a war on the young, the poor, and Blacks? All done for political reasons. A craving for power. Despicable. It is past time to repent.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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