school closed in mid november due to snow

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MSimon
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by MSimon »

ohiovr wrote:
MSimon wrote:
I don't think GMO can produce the miracle of more photosynthetic productivity without causing, how should I say? Unwanted dire consequences.
What would be these unwanted dire consequences? Americans have been eating GMO food for 30 years with no known dire consequences.
Imagine what would happen if someone was able to design an algae species that was 4x as photosynthetically productive as normal algae, it dominate any water way it got into. I wouldn't be suprised if they are working on exactly this thing for some BS biofuel idea.

Other bright ideas include designing a microorganism that fixes nitrogen on any kind of plant... well.. look what almost happened:

http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/GEessays/Kl ... icola.html
From your link:
But I am not trying to say that all genetically engineered organisms are technological terrors. What I am saying is that we have to test each and every genetically engineered organism and make sure that it really does
not have unexpected, unpredicted effects.
The GMO foods get rather a LOT more testing than the results of "natural" plant breeding do.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by MSimon »

ohiovr wrote:
palladin9479 wrote:Don't you know, AGW "Climate Change" cause's cooling too. The recent cooling is just a temporarily set back, the oceans are stealing all the heat and will release it "someday" soon and kill everyone, unless you give me all your money so I can make a scientifically agreed upon "fix"!!!
I think algore could fix global cooling by taking his billions from his global warming investments, and burning them! ha ha!
If he burned them in power plants we could get electricity as a side effect.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

paperburn1
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by paperburn1 »

GMO foods should get a lot more testing than natural combination. GMO can have combination that would never be found in nature. This is the problem with them. As per example take the terminator seed technologies. they are not suppose to spread to other natural fields of the same seed. BUT this is exactly what is occurring with rape seed (canola oil). Testing that was hurried though for the profit of the company. ( For those that do not know terminator seeds will not have viable seeds for replanting)
This could be a whole separate thread.
I am not saying no GMO but we need to proceed with extreme caution in this area.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ohiovr
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by ohiovr »

Schools in Marion Ohio on a 2 hour delay due to cold weather today. A few schools were closed in Ohio...

It is $!#% freezing out there especially with the wind chill. Stay warm everyone!

MSimon
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by MSimon »

GMO can have combination that would never be found in nature.
Not true. Animal genes have been found in plants.

What is true is "GMO can have combinations that would be unlikely to be found in nature."

And they do get a LOT of testing. Enough? We won't know until there is a problem. So far none.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

GIThruster
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by GIThruster »

They don't get nearly enough testing. I am very pro GMO's, but the FDA has been criminally negligent when it comes to requiring the proper testing of GMO's. This is because they're in bed with Monsanto, and employees routinely move from FDA to Monsanto and back, picking up huge salaries as they do. The result is the agency is completely irresponsible and does not require the kinds of testing for GMO's one would expect. For instance, the only people who test Monsanto's products, is Monsanto, and then they self report. This is INVITING abuse and no one with any common sense would devise such a system. It's the result of payoffs and cover-ups. By contrast, all of Europe has refused GMO's because of the lack of testing, and as result, Americans are the world's guinea pigs. yeah, we've been eating GMO corn for 30 years, and we are still trying to figure out why autism is on the rise. If it turns out the two are connected, how boastful will you be about GMO's?

Just saying, I like things like BT corn, but the lack of testing ought to be fixed. FDA has been broken for a long time.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

ohiovr
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by ohiovr »

MSimon wrote: The GMO foods get rather a LOT more testing than the results of "natural" plant breeding do.
Can natural plant breeding produce an invasive species? Anyone besides MSimon want to chime in?

Imagine the havok that would be played on a new species that got away that had no natural predators, or was naturally superior in some way in the environment. A new alien species is what it is, and it could make kudzu look like crab grass.

hanelyp
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by hanelyp »

ohiovr wrote:Imagine what would happen if someone was able to design an algae species that was 4x as photosynthetically productive as normal algae, it dominate any water way it got into.
If such an algae were possible, able to dominate the biome, I'd expect it to already exist naturally.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

paperburn1
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by paperburn1 »

MSimon wrote:
GMO can have combination that would never be found in nature.
Not true. Animal genes have been found in plants.

What is true is "GMO can have combinations that would be unlikely to be found in nature."

And they do get a LOT of testing. Enough? We won't know until there is a problem. So far none.
What the hell have you been smoking? Oh nevermind.
From two of your statements is obvious that you've never taken a great interest or look into the actual problems with GMO seeds. The question is where you want to start with the current mistakes and blunders and quite frankly idiotic attempts of large seed corporations to control the seed genome.
Do we talk about terminator seed technology or do we talk about Mono genome agriculture? Geo phosphate resistant herbicide technology problems? Weed ability to adapt to these new herbicides creating even more herbicide use that is creating even more resistant weeds. Take a look at the monarch butterfly for one example of good intentions going bad.
I really don't know where to start. But strangely enough I do support GMO development. I just feel that currently the major suppliers of the seed companies are putting profit ahead of safety. So this is such a broad issue less pick a point and start discussing that and then we can get into the deeper ramifications of sustainability and maintainability of multi-genome-based agriculture.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

paperburn1
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by paperburn1 »

hanelyp wrote:
ohiovr wrote:Imagine what would happen if someone was able to design an algae species that was 4x as photosynthetically productive as normal algae, it dominate any water way it got into.
If such an algae were possible, able to dominate the biome, I'd expect it to already exist naturally.
Well I think they already do exist naturally. Look at the Carp that have invaded the Illinois River. Zebra mussels in the Great Lakes just to name a few. Now let man put his meddling little fingers and in without understanding all the limitations of the local environment and I'm sure he can come up with something that can really screw things up.
Just look at the feral hog problem in the South. Most of these animals are domestic varieties that have gone wild.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ohiovr
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by ohiovr »

hanelyp wrote:
ohiovr wrote:Imagine what would happen if someone was able to design an algae species that was 4x as photosynthetically productive as normal algae, it dominate any water way it got into.
If such an algae were possible, able to dominate the biome, I'd expect it to already exist naturally.

Once upon a time there were no plants, then when they came, they wiped out everything before them.


[Edit opps.. forgot to share the link]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event

Stubby
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by Stubby »

ohiovr wrote:This very rarely happens in Marion Ohio

If school gets closed due to snow in October next year there will be some very scared main stream climatologists.
How about in November, 4 times in the next 10 years?
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

Stubby
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by Stubby »

ohiovr wrote:
MSimon wrote: The GMO foods get rather a LOT more testing than the results of "natural" plant breeding do.
Can natural plant breeding produce an invasive species? Anyone besides MSimon want to chime in?

Imagine the havok that would be played on a new species that got away that had no natural predators, or was naturally superior in some way in the environment. A new alien species is what it is, and it could make kudzu look like crab grass.
MRSA.

Super bacteria created by over use of antibiotics. We killed all the competition that was keeping MRSA in check through faster proliferation. Now it is out of control in many hospitals. We gave it the room it needed to grow unimpeded.
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

ohiovr
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by ohiovr »

Stubby wrote:
ohiovr wrote:This very rarely happens in Marion Ohio

If school gets closed due to snow in October next year there will be some very scared main stream climatologists.
How about in November, 4 times in the next 10 years?
The mean temperature for the month of November, year to year:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/air ... atename=NA

GIThruster
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Re: school closed in mid november due to snow

Post by GIThruster »

paperburn1 wrote:
hanelyp wrote:
ohiovr wrote:Imagine what would happen if someone was able to design an algae species that was 4x as photosynthetically productive as normal algae, it dominate any water way it got into.
If such an algae were possible, able to dominate the biome, I'd expect it to already exist naturally.
Well I think they already do exist naturally. Look at the Carp that have invaded the Illinois River. Zebra mussels in the Great Lakes just to name a few. Now let man put his meddling little fingers and in without understanding all the limitations of the local environment and I'm sure he can come up with something that can really screw things up.
Just look at the feral hog problem in the South. Most of these animals are domestic varieties that have gone wild.
What is the "hog problem"? I heard they make great eating and they have that delicious barbecue.

Full sized hogs are not native to North America, but they are supposedly the tastiest of wild game and I for one am glad they were brought over. You seem to have bought into the lunatic fringe wildlife biologists' hype that when nature carries a species into an area and it outcompetes everything, that's fine, but when a man transports a species and this happens, it's some sort of crime. I'd just point out this makes no real sense and is the product of a culture that can't think straight.

The ONLY problem with things like BT corn is that it has not been through adequate testing,. It is certainly NOT TRUE that these GMO's require more pesticide. They work just the way they're designed and produce far larger crops with the same or fewer resources. The question is rather, if they're dangerous for human consumption. The argument made by Monsanto is actually a good argument, that there is no reason to suppose these modification could cause harm. However given the population is at risk, the sensible thing is to require vast testing (which would then cause the modifications to cost hundreds of millions rather than tens of millions).

BTW, your comment about "owning the genome" is completely clueless. Monsanto HAS to own the genome or these modifications will never happen because they will not have a way to recover their investments, which are enormous. You're reading nonsense literature on the subject.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

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