How to defeat ISIL

[mvanwink5]

And Jarret is Iranian. Yes, I do so enjoy conspiracy theories especially when they are spun with a good helping of facts.

My theory is that Israel wants total Mideast Muslim nations in chaos, destroying their own cities and infrastructure, keeping their citizens poor and ignorant with the US as cannon fodder, rather than Israel. Keep those fool Muslims killing each other, lopping each others heads. With terrorists in charge the US will keep up their "Crusade." Proof of the conspiracy is that that is what is happening.

Is Indonesia next?

[williatw]

And Jarret is Iranian. Yes, I do so enjoy conspiracy theories especially when they are spun with a good helping of facts.

Born in Iran not Iranian:

Jarrett was born in Shiraz, Iran, to African American parents James E. Bowman and Barbara Taylor Bowman. Her father, a pathologist and geneticist, ran a hospital for children in Shiraz in 1956, as part of a program where American physicians and agricultural experts sought to help communitize developing countries' health and farming efforts. When she was five, the family moved to London for one year, later moving to Chicago in 1963.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Jarrett

[mvanwink5]

Yes, well, I try not to let details get in the way of my better conspiracy theories. Now that you have nuanced that one I will have to try a salvage operation, how about, she has old familial ties to Iran?

Reality is that I think it is accidental when the Progs get a foreign policy decision right, usually they make a pig's ear of everything they touch, but view the disastrously poor result as proof that they care.

[paperburn1]

I think it is and accident when anybody get foreign policy right, especially in the near and mid east

[tomclarke]

Well - Obama is a consensus-builder. He wants to be friends with anyone he can be. That is not always the right policy - but it is also not always the wrong one. And the "they are hostile so let us be more hostile back" policy is also not always right. Good diplomacy between countries needs a clear head and dogged prosecution of possible mutual interests. It is not about moral high horses or ideology.

I don't see Obama has done very well in terms of Foreign Policy, where he does not have the excuse of a deadlocked political system. I'd say he is too slow to act. That works better in times of peace. The problem is that things have been moving more towards war.

But out of all this the one good thing might be rapprochement between US and Iran. That would reward the moderate elements in Iran and give them more power relative to the hard-liners.

[mvanwink5]

I'd say he is too slow to act.

Yes, that is what Progs say, even more meddling to solve the blowback from previous meddling needed to deal with the complications resulting from the other meddling (and somewhere in there was a massive armament effort to support ISIL to oppose another group of thugs, and collateral massacre of civilians and refugees to Europe and Australia...pretty smart and caring, symbolic of true Prog wisdom and, well, caring).

[tomclarke]

who are Progs?

The argument for or against military intervention seems pretty evenly split between right and left wing.

And my POV is that whether or not to intervene is seldom simple. There are circumstances in which it is obvious you stay out. That is not the case here with ISIS since pretty well every developed country in the world wants to stop them, and will help. But it is still not obvious that you intervene - there are costs, and the outcome is never clear.

[GIThruster]

Remember, going to another country to fight what you believe is a just war is not the same as supporting terrorism! There are people persuaded to become terrorists as well, but very few indeed.

Yes well, though true this isn't what we're talking about. If someone goes off to join ISIL, and they're fighting without a uniform, hiding in the population and targeting civilians, they are indeed supporting terrorism. I understand that ISIL wants to be considered a nation, but if when they are attacked they begin resorting to hiding in the population, and then attacking civilians, I think we'll have to say they are not anything like a national army but rather just like all the terrorist organizations that went before. And indeed this is what I expect will happen when they are forced to retreat.

And let's recall this is why the Geneva Conventions require uniforms for soldiers--so they can't hide in the population.

[Diogenes]

Was talking to some friends last night. Both former Military officers. (Marines, Air Force) They said we just need to wipe out all the Muslim's on the planet, and one of them said that is what he will do once he becomes President.



I said you don't want to commit any of those crimes against humanity. You need to destroy the religion, not the people.



I told you I was the reasonable one among some of my friends.



But in their defense I will point out this:



Poll: One In Three Men In Devout Muslim Pakistan Say Raping Boys Is Acceptable…

A recent survey of 1,800 men found that a third believe that not only is raping little boys not a crime, it’s not even a bad thing to do.

http://weaselzippers.us/198368-poll-one ... cceptable/

[GIThruster]

". . .an estimated 90 per cent of street children have been victims of sexual abuse at some point in their lives. . ."

You could make the argument that this is a case of diseased behavior begetting more diseased behavior, since the vast majority of sexual predators were abused themselves. I don't think though, being abused grants a license to abuse others, and really the one way to put an end to this is well, to put an end to this.

Why is the sort of abuse and murder associated with ISIL okay in Sudan but not okay in Syria and Iraq?

[mvanwink5]

who are Progs?

Prog is shortened form of "progressive" which is a sanitized term for someone who sees others as objects to be "managed," cared for, taken care of, (whether they like it or not is the unspoken part of "care"). There are neocon Progs and liberal Progs, each has their own focus. Neocons are looking out for the moral life of others (who they marry, how many they marry, what religion, what doctors they go to, what they take in so far as food or drugs - morally, etc). Lib Progs go after the economic side of the human coin. Both like a good meddlesome war they can both "get behind." "To make the world safe for democracy," is a famous Prog sentiment. Dictator vs dictator, thus vs thug is a perfect setup for a Prog war where they can justify picking the "best" side. They are just being pragmatic, and caring. Ukraine is an example, go in, covertly overthrow one thug group for their Prog favored thug group, then the fun rolls on down the hill gathering collateral damage, all for what?

So a Prog is a "caring," wise, arrogant meddler. One who feels they know best (or the more modern version, that they *probably* know best and that is good enough justification in their mind "as there is no certainty") and will tell you so in no uncertain terms.

The key point, however, is that (good enough) certainty persuades them to take matters into their own hands (and out of the the other fellow's hands). Call it Devine Prog's Right to meddle.

Note: Lib Progs substitute consensus for "certainty."

[hanelyp]

Poll: One In Three Men In Devout Muslim Pakistan Say Raping Boys Is Acceptable…

I find shooting men with such a deplorable attitude to be acceptable. At some point it seems likely to be necessary, or civilization will be overrun.

[Diogenes]

Poll: One In Three Men In Devout Muslim Pakistan Say Raping Boys Is Acceptable…

I find shooting men with such a deplorable attitude to be acceptable. At some point it seems likely to be necessary, or civilization will be overrun.

Better watch out. Some Libertarian is going to call you a "Prog" for attempting to impose morality on others.

[TDPerk]

Better watch out. Some Libertarian is going to call you a "Prog" for attempting to impose morality on others.

Since it's about something objective--physically--like property and person, no, you almost certainly won't.

[mvanwink5]

Every civilized person knows abusing children is a crime... just ask a Catholic Bishop. A child is never a consenting adult...because a child is not... an... adult. Sometimes Progs, though, have difficulty with difficult logic, especially when they are justifying being a Prog.

Here's one, all crimes are immoral, but not all immoral acts are a crime. Yes, a difficult bit of logic for a Prog. Here are some examples to help clarify: cheating on your wife. She may never know, but you will... and it will effect your conscience. Immorality has consequence but is not always a crime. Lying to your best friend, now there is another one. Mistreating your dog because you had a bad day. The examples are endless.