Jimmy Carter All Over Again

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MSimon
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:31 pm

JLawson wrote:
MSimon wrote:
JLawson wrote:There's a lot of unhappy people out here - and I don't think the Dems realize just how unhappy they are.

Problem is the Republicans know just what to do to take the edge off.

Running Obamacare lite in an anti-Obamacare year?

It is the same as saying "You are screwed no matter who you vote for." Brilliant. The devil you know gains attraction.

Well, hell - all we've got to do is legalize pot and all our problems go away, right?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/06/09/marijuana-accidents/10219119/

The devil you know, and all that. :roll:


Would it be helpful if just cancer went away?
http://classicalvalues.com/2014/06/dr-sanja-gupta-cannabis-versus-cancer/

BTW pot/auto accidents is not quite the correct metric. The correct metric is pot vs alcohol auto accidents. Better vs worse. http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/why-medical-marijuana-laws-reduce-traffic-deaths/

How about suicide?

Contrary to the claims of outdated anti-marijuana PSA’s, a new study published in the the American Public Journal of Health claims that legalizing medical marijuana can reduce suicide rates by five percent among the general population and by as much as 10 percent among young male population.

The study, co-written by professors from Montana State, San Diego State, and the University of Colorado at Denver, analyzed 17 years worth of statistics in search of shifts in suicide rates per 10,000 people in states where medical marijuana was legal from 1990 to 2007. Using the statistics of states in which marijuana is still illegal as the control group, the study’s authors concluded that in states with legal medical marijuana, the suicide rate for males aged 20-29 decreased 10.9 percent, and for men aged 30-39 they saw a decrease of 9.4 percent.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/studies-claim-medical-marijuana-may-reduce-suicide-rates-traffic-fatalities/


How about PTSD? http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/legal-pot/out-options-veterans-ptsd-hit-pot-underground-n64026 It is my contention that most "recreational" use is self treatment for PTSD. And that PTSD is from child abuse/trauma. Of course if it weren't for veterans this whole area would be ignored.

And 9 states recently legalized cannabis just for this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2643099/Baby-boy-suffers-rare-form-epilepsy-given-liquid-CANNABIS-stop-fitting.html

All our troubles? Hardly. But legalization ends drug cartels. With legalization in some states and pot prices dropping the cartels in Mexico are reducing pot production. You are not one of those who wishes to see criminals continue in charge of cannabis distribution are you?

At least one drug warrior is admitting that marijuana legalization measures in the states are leading to a decline in weed crossing the border from Mexico. An unnamed El Paso undercover narcotics officer tells KHOU in Houston that he's starting to see more marijuana grown in the U.S. in the border town he patrols.

According to the Drug Enforcement Administration, the amount of marijuana flowing across the border since 2009 has been cut in half. The same report also points out that the catels have been busy fighting with each other over the last few years, leaving the door open for American-grown ganja to move in.
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2013/05/american-grown_cannabis_causing_decline_in_imported_mexican_schwag.php


=================

But back on topic: I can't imagine a worse idea than running Romney (Obamacare in Mass) against Obama in an anti-Obamacare year. I voted Libertarian. Not that it mattered.
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:49 pm

A scientist who works in the area recently said something like "I have yet to find a function in the body that endocannabinoids don't regulate". Which may explain why cannabis is useful in the treatment of so many disparate conditions.

The whole anti-drug thing has held back the study of this area of body function for at least 40 years. The dam is breaking.

Sorry if this new knowledge upsets you. Perhaps your world view needs adjusting as well as your education. Not to worry. Death is on my side.

Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out. Thus, Science advances one funeral at a time” Max Planck

The idea that you can solve medical problems ("addiction") with law enforcement is on its face nuts. But there are still believers. Fewer every year. My condolences.
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hanelyp
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby hanelyp » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:49 pm

When a drug is claimed to be very powerful I ALWAYS ask what are the side effects? Because there WILL be side effects, and they may be very nasty.
If a single class of hormone or neurotransmitter has effects all over the place, flooding the system with a similar chemical is like injecting random signals all over, bound to cause trouble.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

MSimon
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:35 pm

hanelyp wrote:When a drug is claimed to be very powerful I ALWAYS ask what are the side effects? Because there WILL be side effects, and they may be very nasty.
If a single class of hormone or neurotransmitter has effects all over the place, flooding the system with a similar chemical is like injecting random signals all over, bound to cause trouble.


The side effects most commonly noted are hunger and drowsiness. The first is somewhat unusual. The second is not unusual in the context of medicine.

There are all kinds of plant medicines in common use that flood the body with all kinds of chemicals. This is generally not a problem and it hasn't proven so for cannabis. In any case people with stage IV cancer can't wait the decade or so necessary for big pharma to develop a medicine. With weeks to live who can wait a decade? And that very problem you complain of has been caused by prohibition.

I recently came across the medical records of a child with cancer (I'll see if I can find it). About 15 days from the start of cannabis oil to cancer free. Compare that to 2 or 3 years of chemo. And the chemo is a known carcinogen. It is painful and ruins the appetite.

Here it is: http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/13/oregons-youngest-medical-cannabis-patient-is-now-cancer-free/

July 14th 2012 (diagnosis day and steroid treatment began)
Mykayla’s Lymphoblast percentage in her blood smear was 33%
July 15th 2012 – 51%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood smear July 16th 2012 – 11%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood smear (began chemotherapy) July 17th 2012 – 14%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood smear July 18th 2012 – 16%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood smear July 19th 2012 – 3%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood smear July 20th 2012 – 29%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood smear (got released from hospital) July 23rd 2012 – 31%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood smear July 24th 2012 – BEGAN CANNABIS OIL July 26th 2012 – 5%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood smear July 30th 2012 – 3%
Lymphoblasts in Mykayla’s blood (doctor spoke to us about Mykayla’s Lymphoblast count failing to go down to 0 and said that a Bone Marrow Transplant MAY BE in our near future because her blasts are not gone from her blood.)
August 2nd 2012 – 0% blasts
August 6th 2012 – 0% blasts
August 13th 2012 – 0% blasts
August 20th 2012 – 0% blasts

TODAY – 0% blasts!


So 6 to 10 days for a cure vs 2 to 3 years for chemo. And you want to wait for REAL medicine? Get real.

Same for PTSD. It works.

Same for epilepsy. It works.

Same for multiple sclerosis. It works.

I could go on.

This herb will decimate big pharma. It will destroy medicine as we currently know it. And the movement towards this is gaining speed. You want to wait for medical proof and proper medicine. Sick people only care about results. Right now.

There have been some studies on the long term effects of cannabis. Users live on average 1 year longer.

As to the makes people stupid factor? That is contradicted by the FBI looking to get cannabis users who can work cyber crime into the FBI. This has also been noted in Silicon Valley. They generally do not test for pot because doing so would reduce their pool of top performers.

The whole scheme is coming apart at the seams. Hardly any of the formerly common beliefs about the drug holds water.

In any case prohibition never worked. And now that fact is being recognized.
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MSimon
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:47 pm

By the time proper studies have been done and medicines created cannabis will be well entrenched in society.

Who will pay for proper pharmaceuticals when you can grow your own medicine? Unless the pharma companies can deliver better results at lower costs. Possible. But unlikely.

This has the great possibility of reducing medicine from 1/6th of the economy to 1/12th or less. Think of all the resources that will free up.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

JLawson
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby JLawson » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:34 pm

My apologies, folks.

I should have known better than to mention what I did.

It's like dropping a screwdriver across the terminals of a fully-charged capacitor bank.
When opinion and reality conflict - guess which one is going to win in the long run.

ladajo
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby ladajo » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:49 pm

yup.

And just to pour salt water on it, he ignores that she was on Chemo at the same time...

Smae old horseshit every time. He even rolled out the "driving is safer" drivel again.

So sad.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
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MSimon
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby MSimon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:40 pm

ladajo wrote:yup.

And just to pour salt water on it, he ignores that she was on Chemo at the same time...

Smae old horseshit every time. He even rolled out the "driving is safer" drivel again.

So sad.


Well. If you look at the literature....

Same old ignorance every time. But I'm a nice guy. I'll help. Look up "Dr. Christina Sanchez cancer" or "Dennis Hill biochemist cancer" or how about the gold standard "NIH cancer endocannabinoid" or the other gold standard "NCI cancer cannabis".

And you know why the Chemo was required? Because the government's family "services" will take your child away if you cease chemo treatment. I'm sure that is something you heartily approve of Ladajo.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/03/24/3418044/prosecutors-cant-go-after-family-treating-childs-seizures-with-marijuana-extract-judge-rules/

Colorado mom visited by child protective services for treating son’s cancer with medical marijuana instead of chemotherapy

And this just in: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/government-approves-marijuana-study-for-treating-ptsd-in-veterans/ Just the same old every time.

You know Ladajo - given your views on this subject you would think that you were either a nanny state Democrat or maybe your job depends on supporting what ever government does. Another possibility is that you are an agent of the drug cartels. There seems to be a lot of them around. Surprisingly they seem to be concentrated among Law and Order Republicans. But it is a hoot. Republicans supporting the drug price support and gang finance program. Well I guess when they say "smaller government" they cross their fingers behind their back and vociferously deny their secret love for criminals.

And BTW my "Constitutionalist" friend, could you point out the Drug Prohibition Amendment to that document? I missed it. I guess it is one of those arrogated powers you approve of while decrying the current Dear Leader's ignoring the document.

Well have a nice day. I am. Because Prohibition is going down. All those Federal Agents out of make work. Pity. Heh.
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MSimon
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby MSimon » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:09 am

US Government owns medical marijuana patent.

On Oct. 7, 2003, the US government issued Patent No. 6,630,507.

Actor Michael J. Fox and many millions of other Americans — my dear late wife, Tricia, included — could have gotten very excited about this development back then.

But it was, apparently, not the sort of thing Washington wanted advertised.

Patent No. 6,630,507, you see, is for cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants. Most people would simply refer to this as medical marijuana.

Who got that patent? The US government gave this patent to itself.

<snip>

Here’s what three scientists from the Department of Health and Human Services said in the abstract — or summary — of their findings submitted with the patent application: “The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroproectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke or trauma, or the treatment of neurological diseases, such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease and HIV dementia.”

http://nypost.com/2013/09/11/feds-patented-medical-marijuana-even-when-they-were-fighting-it/


http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6630507.PN.&OS=PN/6630507&RS=PN/6630507

Perhaps you can explain that Ladajo.
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paperburn1
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby paperburn1 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:38 am

Once again Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention.
THC fricks you up
THC BAD got it?
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

MSimon
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby MSimon » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:50 am

paperburn1 wrote:Once again Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention.
THC fricks you up
THC BAD got it?


THC kills cancer according to our government. You aren't another of those who failed to RTFM are you?

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4

Evidently there is no cure for ignorance. Except death.

Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out. Thus, Science advances one funeral at a time” Max Planck

There is nothing more fun for me than arguing with the ignorant. Keep 'em coming.
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby JoeP » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:53 am

darn it. I wanted to hear more Jimmy Carter vs. Obama comparisons and contrasts. Even from our moderator. Just not more stoner Cheech and Chong crap, maaan. Please.

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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby MSimon » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:56 am

JoeP wrote:darn it. I wanted to hear more Jimmy Carter vs. Obama comparisons and contrasts. Even from our moderator. Just not more stoner Cheech and Chong crap, maaan. Please.


Well OK. Here is one that is not quite so OT. Republicans believe in in ignoring the Constitution when it suits them. So does Obama. I don't get the fuss. From Republicans. Me? Well I'm a libertarian. I do believe in sticking to the document. But that does make me an odd man out.

Carter wanted to end pot prohibition. Obama does not. So which President is worse?

Before the liberal ascension at the turn of the 20th Century the Federal Government had no major role in the regulation of medicine (the 10th covers that). And here we have "Constitutionalist" Republicans supporting that interference. We no longer have any significant resistance to the expansion of the Federal government. We just have right wing socialists and left wing socialists to choose from.

BTW Eric Cantor just lost to a libertarian Tea Party guy. A move in the correct direction IMO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/virginia-primary-results_n_5479472.html

http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/10/house-majority-leader-eric-cantor-looks
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JoeP
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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby JoeP » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:46 am

MSimon wrote:
JoeP wrote:darn it. I wanted to hear more Jimmy Carter vs. Obama comparisons and contrasts. Even from our moderator. Just not more stoner Cheech and Chong crap, maaan. Please.


Well OK. Here is one that is not quite so OT. Republicans believe in in ignoring the Constitution when it suits them. So does Obama. I don't get the fuss. From Republicans. Me? Well I'm a libertarian. I do believe in sticking to the document. But that does make me an odd man out.

Carter wanted to end pot prohibition. Obama does not. So which President is worse?

Before the liberal ascension at the turn of the 20th Century the Federal Government had no major role in the regulation of medicine (the 10th covers that). And here we have "Constitutionalist" Republicans supporting that interference. We no longer have any significant resistance to the expansion of the Federal government. We just have right wing socialists and left wing socialists to choose from.

BTW Eric Cantor just lost to a libertarian Tea Party guy. A move in the correct direction IMO.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/virginia-primary-results_n_5479472.html

http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/10/house-majority-leader-eric-cantor-looks


Aside from the pot issue, which I think is much less pressing than most of the other ongoing issues or calamities, I am in agreement with what you said that I highlighted above. It is pretty much pick your poison at this stage. Most often a choice between the lesser of two evils. As for Cantor, I also found that news to be a bit heartening. Maybe some of these so-called tea party politicians that stray out of bounds like he did will also find themselves booted. It seems the only legal path to changing some things in both parties just might be the primaries. Probably too little, too late though. If that starts happening a lot, then incumbents will just run as independents that promise the "caucus" with their former party anyway. I recall at few politicians that have done that successfully from both parties in recent years.

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Re: Jimmy Carter All Over Again

Postby JLawson » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:48 am

MSimon wrote:
JoeP wrote:darn it. I wanted to hear more Jimmy Carter vs. Obama comparisons and contrasts. Even from our moderator. Just not more stoner Cheech and Chong crap, maaan. Please.


Well OK. Here is one that is not quite so OT. Republicans believe in in ignoring the Constitution when it suits them. So does Obama. I don't get the fuss. From Republicans. Me? Well I'm a libertarian. I do believe in sticking to the document. But that does make me an odd man out.

Carter wanted to end pot prohibition. Obama does not. So which President is worse?
Depends on the issue. If Obama passed executive orders that essentially turned the US into a 3rd world country, jacking energy prices up to ridiculous levels, buggering the economy and turned us into a northern version of Venezuela, with all the attendant corruption and elite looting of the country, BUT legalized pot, would you hail him as a hero or a complete moron?
MSimon wrote:Before the liberal ascension at the turn of the 20th Century the Federal Government had no major role in the regulation of medicine (the 10th covers that). And here we have "Constitutionalist" Republicans supporting that interference. We no longer have any significant resistance to the expansion of the Federal government. We just have right wing socialists and left wing socialists to choose from.

BTW Eric Cantor just lost to a libertarian Tea Party guy. A move in the correct direction IMO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/10/virginia-primary-results_n_5479472.html

http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/10/house-majority-leader-eric-cantor-looks

As I said earlier, and you replied -
MSimon wrote:
JLawson wrote:There's a lot of unhappy people out here - and I don't think the Dems realize just how unhappy they are.

Problem is the Republicans know just what to do to take the edge off.

Running Obamacare lite in an anti-Obamacare year?

It is the same as saying "You are screwed no matter who you vote for." Brilliant. The devil you know gains attraction.

Maybe people are getting tired of the same old, same old. With the internet, it's easy as anything to see what a politician has said and when they said it - and I think the current dumping of kids in Arizona has gotten a lot of people's attention directed to immigration - and when they look at what's promised vs what's delivered, they get a bit... uncooperative with the powers that be.

I don't think Cantor's the last one. We'll see what happens with the guy who beat him. He'd better hope his past is stainless beyond reproach, because with 'one of their own' being kicked out, the DC pundits and press will be out for blood.
When opinion and reality conflict - guess which one is going to win in the long run.


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