The Plane is in Pakistan?

[Diogenes]

But the explanation of WHY is still beyond comprehension of sane and reasonable people.

Islam.

[Diogenes]

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: GeoResonance survey company says "wreckage of a commercial airliner" found

The company's technology is often used to help clients find mineral deposits for mining, but GeoResonance also has participated in the hunt for old warships or aircraft on the ocean floor.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-ai ... ner-found/

[ladajo]

Interesting. I saw this elsewhere also.
I am not sure they found 370. But it does look like they found a plane.
The big detractor for it being 370 was the pinger tracking. Unless someone was playing silly buggers with the Aussies.

I am sure someone is going to image this "aircraft" in the short term to see what it is.

[JLawson]

If I were a terrorist looking to use a plane for a bomb, I'd consider buying an airliner destined for the boneyard. OSC bought their L-1011, used to launch Pegasus and Pegasus XL, for about half what a Beach A-36 Bonanza costs new. And I'd want a cargo plane.

All theories as to what happened to this aircraft, including whatever really happened, are so implausible as to not be worth considering. This does not make a lick of sense.

My best guess is one member of the cockpit crew did this. Probably killed the other one at the outset ... for two people to collude in this is too hard for my tiny brain to accept. Then to not have the passengers in total revolt, probably slowly dropped cabin pressure until they all blacked out, and finally expired.

But the explanation of WHY is still beyond comprehension of sane and reasonable people.

Buying a used airliner isn't a low-visibility task, and there's plenty of paperwork attached to it - which makes it hard to (a) hide who's really doing it and (b) who's really paying for it. It might be easier (with a disaffected pilot) to steal the plane. Smuggle a gun on board, kill the co-pilot, go to 40,000 feet, go on oxygen, depressurize the aircraft...

If the passengers went via anoxia, well... that's probably the best hoped outcome, actually.

And all things considered, you could put a Hiroshima-style (Little Boy) atomic device in the cargo compartment w/no problems. Fat Man, you'd have to take out some flooring.

At to 'why' - well, sane and reasonable people usually don't understand the reasons behind hate that's been inculcated since childhood... which would be needed to inspire something like this.

I think Diogenes hit it with Islam, actually. Wouldn't mind being wrong at all, and I'm still hoping they find the wreckage...

darn sad times when a crash is the BEST reason for one disappearing.

[ladajo]

I think instead of saying "Islam", it would be more appropriate to say "Extremist Sociopath".
Last I checked Timothy McVey and all the Abortion Clinic bombers and shooters were not muslim.

[Skipjack]

Buying a used airliner isn't a low-visibility task, and there's plenty of paperwork attached to it - which makes it hard to (a) hide who's really doing it and (b) who's really paying for it. It might be easier (with a disaffected pilot) to steal the plane. Smuggle a gun on board, kill the co-pilot, go to 40,000 feet, go on oxygen, depressurize the aircraft...

Why, why, why? Just charter a plane! Unless the guy behind it was in it alone and poor, there is no easier thing to do than to charter a plane. Rich people and politicians do it all the time. That way they don't have to go through security and can drive right up to the jet. It is not THAT expensive and a lot less of a hassle and risk. Plus if a plane with just one or two people disappears, there is a lot less of a search going on than when it is hundreds of people! Think!

And all things considered, you could put a Hiroshima-style (Little Boy) atomic device in the cargo compartment w/no problems. Fat Man, you'd have to take out some flooring.

Sure because these things grow on trees... Besides, it would be easier to smuggle the thing onto a cargo ship. The Saudis are doing our port security now anyway (thanks to GWB). So there is plenty of opportunity for that. It would have the added "benefit" that there would be a contaminated salt water cloud causing some "nice fallout".

Wouldn't mind being wrong at all, and I'm still hoping they find the wreckage...
darn sad times when a crash is the BEST reason for one disappearing.

I am quite sure that you are wrong. This sort approach makes no sense, whatsoever.

[Diogenes]

I think instead of saying "Islam", it would be more appropriate to say "Extremist Sociopath".
Last I checked Timothy McVey and all the Abortion Clinic bombers and shooters were not muslim.

Timothy McVeigh was agnostic. The Abortion Clinic bombers and shooters might have been "Christian", but they weren't killing people because Christ told them to, they were killing people to (in their mind) stop the bloodshed of innocents. I am sympathetic to this perspective and this goal.

I would personally shed no more tears for abortionists being shot than I would for SS Camp guards. Were I on a jury, I would vote to acquit anyone who shot one of those B@stards. Of course, i'm pretty much out of the mainstream in that regard, but I make no apologies for what I think about this topic.


But getting back to your point, yes it is unfair to portray all Muslims as Extremist Sociopaths, but the fact that many can embrace their religion without resorting to head off-cutting does not ameliorate the fact that a far too high of a percentage of that faith cannot but do otherwise.

Now i'm guessing that the Dangerously Fanatical component of Islam represents about 30% of the overall group. (Because for some reason, populations tend to divide into thirds. 1/3rd in favor, 1/3rd against, and 1/3rd which is clueless. See "US war of Independence" e.g. )

Now I don't mean 1/3rd of all Islamists would cut off people's heads, i'm asserting that 1/3rd would support such an effort and take no steps to prevent it, and probably cheer loudly at the accomplishment of it. Probably 10% are of the violent intolerant head cutting-off sort.


The fact remains, did they not have explicit instructions in their religion to induce them to this action, they would likely be far less willing and able to commit it.

"historian Koenraad Elst estimates that between the year 1000 and 1525, eighty million Hindus died at the hands of Muslim invaders, probably the biggest holocaust in the whole history of our planet. "

http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#MusConInd

[Skipjack]

I would personally shed no more tears for abortionists being shot than I would for SS Camp guards. Were I on a jury, I would vote to acquit anyone who shot one of those B@stards. Of course, i'm pretty much out of the mainstream in that regard, but I make no apologies for what I think about this topic.

And this puts you pretty much in line with the other religious fanatics like those Muslims that you hate so much. Think about that for a second.

[TDPerk]

"And this puts you pretty much in line with the other religious fanatics like those Muslims that you hate so much. Think about that for a second."

Me too then. I don't think its untoward to stop the murder of a few thousand babies by killing a handful of their would be murderers.

I think the Nazis were glad of people who think like you, after all, they were following the law. Think about that for a second.

[Skipjack]

If I remember correctly, the Nazis did execute people for illegal abortions.

[Tom Ligon]

But the explanation of WHY is still beyond comprehension of sane and reasonable people.

Islam.

Then where is the rant and the claim that they did it for Allah?

[Tom Ligon]

Interesting. I saw this elsewhere also.
I am not sure they found 370. But it does look like they found a plane.
The big detractor for it being 370 was the pinger tracking. Unless someone was playing silly buggers with the Aussies.

I am sure someone is going to image this "aircraft" in the short term to see what it is.

There should be an Indian 747 around there, if my memory serves me well. It was known to be taken out with a bomb, a couple of decades back. Was that one ever found?

Nah, my mistake. It went down in the Atlantic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

[paperburn1]

To look like the scans it would have to have "soft" landed intact

[Tom Ligon]

Soft landing intact might not be so unlikely if it were left on autopilot. I don't know the contingencies built in to that particular system, but spent over a decade working with UAV control systems. The 777 is late model, should be fairly sophisticated.

The priorities in a total engine failure should be to keep the wings level and maintain a best glide airspeed (a modest margin above stall, and pretty close to approach/landing configuration). That's also a good strategy for a water landing. The plane could have done it automatically, with a little luck.

[JLawson]

Buying a used airliner isn't a low-visibility task, and there's plenty of paperwork attached to it - which makes it hard to (a) hide who's really doing it and (b) who's really paying for it. It might be easier (with a disaffected pilot) to steal the plane. Smuggle a gun on board, kill the co-pilot, go to 40,000 feet, go on oxygen, depressurize the aircraft...

Why, why, why? Just charter a plane! Unless the guy behind it was in it alone and poor, there is no easier thing to do than to charter a plane. Rich people and politicians do it all the time. That way they don't have to go through security and can drive right up to the jet. It is not THAT expensive and a lot less of a hassle and risk. Plus if a plane with just one or two people disappears, there is a lot less of a search going on than when it is hundreds of people! Think!

As I said, to avoid a paper trail. (Shrug.) What are you going to do, pay for the charter in cash? Yeah, THAT won't send up any red flags at all. You'll get all sorts of interest from drug enforcement agencies to boot.

And all things considered, you could put a Hiroshima-style (Little Boy) atomic device in the cargo compartment w/no problems. Fat Man, you'd have to take out some flooring.

Sure because these things grow on trees... Besides, it would be easier to smuggle the thing onto a cargo ship. The Saudis are doing our port security now anyway (thanks to GWB). So there is plenty of opportunity for that. It would have the added "benefit" that there would be a contaminated salt water cloud causing some "nice fallout".

Oh, I agree there - they grow under mountains in Iran. Hiroshima-style cannon devices are simple, reliable, and easy to construct. You could, if you had sufficiently pure uranium, get cast-iron piping from somewhere like Home Depot, and build your own. Half your critical mass on one end, the other half at the other, and you whack one with explosives to drive it into the other.

As far as explosives go, ANFO would be sufficient to get a very low-order yield, but something more forceful would be better. Dynamite would be better, some of the military-grade explosives much more so. But the overall design itself is simple, while the implosion devices are difficult.

And it WOULD be easier to smuggle one in a cargo ship. But that's slow, with a chance of discovery.

Wouldn't mind being wrong at all, and I'm still hoping they find the wreckage...
darn sad times when a crash is the BEST reason for one disappearing.

I am quite sure that you are wrong. This sort approach makes no sense, whatsoever.

To you, no. It made no sense to slam aircraft into the WTC and the Pentagon to me. Tactically, it was stupid. Strategically, it was counterproductive as all hell. But its what they could manage logistically, and was an incredible propaganda success.

Nuking Israel for example, even if it was an air burst at 20k feet that didn't do a LOT of damage, would be a magnificent thing in their eyes.