Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

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Jccarlton
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Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby Jccarlton » Sun May 26, 2013 3:37 am

Same old tune, which comes down to "give us money." It seems to me that a while back we had a "stimulus package" with "shovel ready jobs" that was supposed to address this. Where did the money go? Oh, I know. didn't it need to be spent to make sure that public employees kept their jobs and state and local governments weren't destroyed by overwhelming pension payments. I guess that turned out to be more important than actually doing any thing that might have a positive impact on the economy. Now the same people want more money, borrowed money.
Infrastructure decay is a real problem. The thing is that the solutions are things that the Progressive wouldn't like very much. Certainly the public employee unions wouldn't like it. The reality is that we can either pay for the fat pensions of those employees or we could do what needs to be done to fix the country, but we can't do both.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/2 ... ap=%5B%5D#

Roger
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby Roger » Tue May 28, 2013 9:58 pm

The ARRA spent about 170 billion on infrastructure stimulus. The infrastructure deficit is easily as high as 3 trillion. And many projects like high speed rail and light rail are not shovel ready, but are multi year projects that were not addressed by the ARRA.

Most of the EU spends 5-6% of GDP annually, we used to spend 5-8% of GDP on infrastructure, the most recent high in 2010 was 1.7%. Prior to that was 2001-2004 @ 2%, and prior to that 3.4% in 1977-1980.
I like the p-B11 resonance peak at 50 KV acceleration. In2 years we'll know.

rj40
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby rj40 » Wed May 29, 2013 12:32 am

I think we saw some of that ARRA money put to work on a bridge near where we live down here. And I think it needed it too. Scary stuff decaying bridges. Not many entities seem to want to pay, or can pay. And then someday it's too late.

Having been without it for a period of time, I can say that I like it.

But what about things like the TVA? Didn't that actually compete with non government work? Real private businesses? How was that ever handled? I can't remember the outcome detailed in that book by Amity Shlaes. The Forgotten Man. Was it passed to private industry after a time? How many companies did it put out of business? None? A lot?

I sure do like infrastructure though.

necoras
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby necoras » Wed May 29, 2013 8:32 pm

The thing is that the solutions are things that the Progressive wouldn't like very much.


Like what?

Same old tune, which comes down to "give us money."


You know how to build/repair roads for free?

Infrastructure decay is a real problem.


Well, at least we agree on that.



Demonizing people you don't like isn't effective at solving underlying issues, and it says something negative about you. By all means suggest solutions, but please refrain from denigrating others while commenting about a problem.

GIThruster
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby GIThruster » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:36 pm

I think people tend to forget when they consider the question of federal spending on infrastructure, that the states already have an agreement with the federal government on this issue. The US built the Interstate Highway System with the explicit understanding with each state, that they were each individually responsible for maintaining and replacing that infrastructure. The states individually are responsible to repair old bridges, and I don't want my federal tax dollars paying to fix the crappy roads in PA. I already pay to fix the well kept roads here in NJ and I don't need to pay for PA's poorly funded roads and bridges as well.

Another issue people tend to forget when considering infrastructure is that high speed rail is a terribly bad idea. While environmentalists may remind that rail is the most efficient form of transport, that is only true of cargo. Rail is an extremely inefficient people mover and high speed rail is never self sustaining since it costs far more than anyone could ever afford to pay. All rail is subsidized in the US (and Europe) because it is not sustainable. Amtrak has never turned a profit since it was nationalized under Nixon and it never will because it is far too inefficient to do so.

So, if the feds really want to spend money on infrastructure, what they're left with is airports, and they already have a program for refurbishing airports. Looks to me the whole topic is only current so as to provide a distraction from the failed policies we see in place. . .22 embassies closed despite we were promised the War on Terror was over. . .
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

rj40
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby rj40 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:40 pm

Have some laws been changed or added over the years?

I reviewed the following link, and it seems to indicate that the fed's have been ok'd to help with money.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/safetealu/factsheets/im.htm
Kind of hard to follow though.

And then I found this:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/intmaint.cfm
Even harder to follow. Poorly written I think.

At any rate, don't both indicate the Fed's, by law, can now throw in money? At least now. Even though the *original* setup was that they would not.

I admit I could be misreading these write-ups.

As far as air transport, I agree, I would have no problem with fed dollars going to Atlanta Hartsfield or Newark Liberty or others. Oh man, these are overwhelmed airports. At Newark the other day, I heard a lady ask a guard about passing through security if she took the train to another terminal to catch a connecting flight. The guy said yes, she would, unfortunately there was no other option. But I saw there was! A sign right behind the guard! Take a bus and it would take you to the next terminal - no going out then back in through security. I did that.

Forbes had an article about small commuter jets a few years back. They would fly out of smaller regional airports and help to relieve congestion at bigger airports. Cater to mostly business flyers. I wonder if that concept ever...took off?

It's too bad about trains.

Stubby
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby Stubby » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:22 pm

About 70 percent of the construction and maintenance costs of Interstate Highways in the United States have been paid through user fees, primarily the fuel taxes collected by the federal, state, and local governments. To a much lesser extent they have been paid for by tolls collected on toll highways and bridges. The Highway Trust Fund, established by the Highway Revenue Act in 1956, prescribed a three-cent-per-gallon fuel tax, soon increased to 4.5 cents per gallon. In 1993 the tax was increased to 18.4 cents per gallon, where it remains as of 2012
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

Stubby
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby Stubby » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:27 pm

bridge in Green Bay for I43 in Wisconsin closed indefinitely.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/art ... ck_check=1
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

Schneibster
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby Schneibster » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:25 am

Stubby wrote:bridge in Green Bay for I43 in Wisconsin closed indefinitely.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/art ... ck_check=1
I went on a drive with my parents when I was five through the Olympic Peninsula. I went on another one with my wife when I was forty-something.

They were denying global warming while the gypsy moth was eating their homes and livelihoods. It was pitiful. I didn't dare light a campfire. I was afraid I'd burn the whole darn place down.

My parents were too old to go see it.

I'm glad they never did.
We need a directorate of science, and we need it to be voted on only by scientists. You don't get to vote on reality. Get over it. Elected officials that deny the findings of the Science Directorate are subject to immediate impeachment for incompetence.

GIThruster
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby GIThruster » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:13 am

rj40 wrote:As far as air transport, I agree, I would have no problem with fed dollars going to Atlanta Hartsfield or Newark Liberty or others. Oh man, these are overwhelmed airports.


The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey took partial control from the South Jersey Transportation Authority on July 1, and is trying to fix the troubles we have at NJ Newark Airport.

When I was 17 years old and driving taxis into Newark, LaGuardia and JFK from Northern NJ, Newark was certainly the best of the bunch. Now, Newark has been rated the worst international airport in the country. Why? Because it is so overburdened. No airport can function well when it is landing 2-3 flights per minute.

NY-NJ TA has authority over 5 international airports: Newark, LaGuardia, JFK, Stewart and now Atlantic City. The hope is, that they will be able to convince the various airlines to move from Newark to ACY. Why? Because traffic into ACY is dead and the airport is able to handle hundreds of times the traffic it has.

I remember very vividly back 25 years ago, that FAA had this new model they wanted to impose on air traffic: lose the current "hub and spoke" model in favor of the better "direct flight" model. The thinking was, use more airports, flying more, smaller planes, to more locations; instead of using bigger planes flying fewer flights.

So now just saying, 25 years later and i worked at Atlantic City Airport for 6 months, and spoke with all the PA people, the SJTA people and the pilots and crews from countless flights. . .

We don't need bigger planes. We need smaller more efficient planes, flying more frequently into smaller airports, more evenly distributed across the nation.

FAA had this right 25 years ago. And we're getting there. Atlantic City International (ACY) is a pleasure to fly through, while Newark is a nightmare.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Schneibster
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby Schneibster » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:56 am

GIThruster wrote:The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey took partial control from the South Jersey Transportation Authority on July 1, and is trying to fix the troubles we have at NJ Newark Airport.
The dirty East comes to the West Coast and is jealous because it's clean; they wanna make us smell as bad as they do.

When you let East Coast sailors into your harbor they start dumping their crap in it immediately. Too cheap to have their sewage processed so they make it everyone's problem. They've already polluted San Diego and LA.
We need a directorate of science, and we need it to be voted on only by scientists. You don't get to vote on reality. Get over it. Elected officials that deny the findings of the Science Directorate are subject to immediate impeachment for incompetence.

ladajo
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby ladajo » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:27 am

Really Jackass?

Image

Maybe you should read this as well.

Instructions for Idiots that Don't Know What They are Talking About

It is not worth the risk, and any professional mariner knows it. It is a career ending event if you are caught.

You do not know what you are talking about you moron.

You really do evoke a lack of patience in me. And that in itself is extremely unusual. Find another sandbox to pee in, or at least start wearing your adult diapers. Maybe it is okay that your cats pee all over your house, but it is not okay for you to pee all over ours.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Schneibster
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby Schneibster » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:03 am

I was talking about in reality, not in the unenforceable laws you support because no one can check on you.

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/08/ar ... -the-seas/

They deliberately dumped it off a sensitive area and they got away with it because the Republicans won't sign up for the treaty.

We done here? Or you got some other pig crap you'd like to flush into the ocean?
We need a directorate of science, and we need it to be voted on only by scientists. You don't get to vote on reality. Get over it. Elected officials that deny the findings of the Science Directorate are subject to immediate impeachment for incompetence.

GIThruster
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Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby GIThruster » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:25 am

I was a little shocked to read Iadajo's response so decided to read slimeschneibl's post. I must say I am not surprised that he's participating again in character assassination of people he does not know, in circumstances he knows nothing about, all to suit his perverse and malicious needs.

Truly diagnosable.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: Progressives Are whining About infrastructure again

Postby GIThruster » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:25 am

I was a little shocked to read Iadajo's response so decided to read slimeschneibl's post. I must say I am not surprised that he's participating again in character assassination of people he does not know, in circumstances he knows nothing about, all to suit his perverse and malicious needs.

Truly diagnosable.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis


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