Speaking of Fascism...

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choff
Posts: 2337
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Speaking of Fascism...

Postby choff » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:46 pm

MSimon wrote:
choff wrote:Interesting article I was just reading, according to an ECB report, the average Italian is twice as well off as the average German financially. Too bad for the average German that their government has to bail out the Italians.
http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2013/3/8/a-politically-explosive-secret-italians-are-over-twice-as-we.html


It should be: Testosterone Pit - where the truth comes home to root.

We are fooked. It is also looking like government ownership of the housing stock (the US is now attaining that condition) is not good for wealth accumulation.


If it's true then having a national economy based on the exporting of manufactured goods isn't the great wealth model it's cracked up to be, unless you own the factory that is. My own experience before free trade was that everything manufactured in the States was 30% off what it cost in Canada except with the duties. So most of the country was hinterland to Ontario with it's manufacturing base, and they stopped any other province from developing industry via a thousand little ways. If the model requires either a hinterland or colonies and workers that can only afford rent then it's pointless for the majority. I've also heard one arguement that wind farms are competitive if you thing of oil as being subsidized by military protection Throw in that some of the new factories are automated to the point that it takes five engineers to program the robots that did the work of a thousand people and there is no point, you can't sell the product to robots and nobody else has any money to buy it.
CHoff

MSimon
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Location: Rockford, Illinois
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Re: Speaking of Fascism...

Postby MSimon » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:46 am

choff wrote:
MSimon wrote:
choff wrote:Interesting article I was just reading, according to an ECB report, the average Italian is twice as well off as the average German financially. Too bad for the average German that their government has to bail out the Italians.
http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2013/3/8/a-politically-explosive-secret-italians-are-over-twice-as-we.html


It should be: Testosterone Pit - where the truth comes home to root.

We are fooked. It is also looking like government ownership of the housing stock (the US is now attaining that condition) is not good for wealth accumulation.


If it's true then having a national economy based on the exporting of manufactured goods isn't the great wealth model it's cracked up to be, unless you own the factory that is. My own experience before free trade was that everything manufactured in the States was 30% off what it cost in Canada except with the duties. So most of the country was hinterland to Ontario with it's manufacturing base, and they stopped any other province from developing industry via a thousand little ways. If the model requires either a hinterland or colonies and workers that can only afford rent then it's pointless for the majority. I've also heard one arguement that wind farms are competitive if you thing of oil as being subsidized by military protection Throw in that some of the new factories are automated to the point that it takes five engineers to program the robots that did the work of a thousand people and there is no point, you can't sell the product to robots and nobody else has any money to buy it.


Well sure wind farms are competitive if you assign the military to oil costs. There is just one little problem. Wind mills don't make liquid fuels.

BTW we went through a similar transition in the 20s and 30s where machines replaced farm labor. Once the transition was done things were better. During the transition very difficult.

The question always is what will people do? Something else. Telephone operators have been automated out of existence. We manage quite well without those jobs.

What else has happened? The price of a long distance call in America has gone from a dollar a minute (3 minute minimum) when I was a kid to zero. No way that could have been accomplished with human operators. So who will be able to afford things when costs are driven to zero? Every one. Yeah. You still pay a monthly infrastructure fee. But that is affordable for almost everyone.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
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choff
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Speaking of Fascism...

Postby choff » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:35 pm

In a way, we might be at an advantage, having adapted to having the factories shipped off to China. We're first in making the transition to a post-industrial, services oriented economy. When you look at the trade wars, tariffs, subsidies and other sacrifices needed to keep up an export driven manufacturing economy, it's better to leave it to the market place. The numbers bandied about by the windfarm industry are dodgy at best, tidal has a few niche spots, same with solar, there is the problem with oil of protecting against disruption, but you need protection anyway, Polywell or molten salt reactors can't come soon enough.
CHoff


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