Latest drug addict loons.

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Diogenes
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:
Unlike alcohol, a marijuana overdose will kill no one. It is just unpleasant. And the alcohol folks are responsible for about 1/2 the road deaths not to mention 1,000 direct poisoning deaths a year. You aren't one of those vile alkys are you?



Colorado Man Claims Pot Brownies Made Him Kill His Wife



Image



DENVER (AP) — A judge ordered a Denver man on Friday to stand trial in the killing of his wife, who told dispatchers moments before her death that he was paranoid and hallucinating after eating marijuana-infused candy.



http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/08/22/ ... -his-wife/
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Diogenes
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by Diogenes »

williatw wrote: End this ruinously WOD which has damaged are Constitutional rights far more than the effects of legal and regulated would.



Do you know what this is? This is "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence." Fallacy.




I see people continuously *ALLEGING* that this War on Drugs is a horrible disaster, but not a one of them seems to realize that it is the "frying pan" compared to the "fire" of legalized drugs.



Legalized drugs DESTROYED a nation. It will DESTROY this one too. Libertarians simply never live long enough to see why their ideas are utter sh*t. The consequences don't manifest until long after they are gone.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

williatw wrote:
MSimon wrote:
GIThruster wrote:"“Since 2005, states that allow some form of legal marijuana have seen a 30 percent annual increase in calls to poison control centers for marijuana ingestion, relative to a 1 percent increase in non-legal states,” the hospital states on its website."

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/2683 ... iked-candy

Because the wicked just can't keep their sickness to themselves.
Unlike alcohol, a marijuana overdose will kill no one. It is just unpleasant. And the alcohol folks are responsible for about 1/2 the road deaths not to mention 1,000 direct poisoning deaths a year. You aren't one of those vile alkys are you?


The problem is that the "edibles" marijuana containing candy, brownies whatever don't list how much pot is in it and what the total THC content of said edible is to enable the consumer to gauge what they are ingesting. Sounds like a problem that could be fixed with reasonable labeling. Legal pot is a new industry it is understandable that there would be some growing pains. Another problem is that where pot is legal (Colorado) there is a problem with where you are and aren't allowed to smoke pot; this itself causes allot of people to turn to what they feel is the legally safer alternative of the "edibles". My understand is that ingesting pot unlike smoking the effect is inherently more delayed; making it more difficult for a novice user to judge how much they should take and how quickly.
Always a problem when something comes out of the shadows. It is interesting that so many Conservatives favor the Black Market. Objectively.

Evidently it has become an issue with the Heritage Foundation. Because Prohibition has such a long and successful heritage in America. If you support criminals. Which objectively these Conservatives do. Despite claiming the opposite. Evidently they are incapable of learning from the history of that other Prohibition. Alcohol.

http://classicalvalues.com/2014/10/supp ... -on-drugs/

http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/20/new-c ... ion-drugs/

http://classicalvalues.com/2014/10/aclu ... -doj-post/

Conservatives covertly supporting criminals? Well the liberals do it openly. Why not? Either way it is a vote getter.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Teahive
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by Teahive »

GIThruster wrote:You're going to insist on your viewpoint regardless of the human suffering it will cause.
Do you acknowledge the human suffering your viewpoint will cause?

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

D,

I think it was the alcohol he drank that made him kill his wife. And if not him hundreds of others. Alcohol is much more related to violence (well not counting Prohibition/Black Market violence) than cannabis.

But then again let us look at what pot really does:
Although he was later reprimanded by the bureau for testifying in court that he had once used the drug himself—he evidently told a jury in New York that, "After two puffs from a marijuana cigarette, I was turned into a bat"—Munch still served as the bureau’s pot expert until 1962.

http://www.newsreview.com/chico/pot-tur ... ?oid=25611
So according to the BNDD (the predecessor of the DEA) pot turned him into a bat. He never recovered. But he did get a government pension. And continued to testify in court. Evidently bats can testify if they were previously human.

I think it is critical to ban pot and keep it banned to prevent bat outbreaks.

Well you have to admit pot turned him into a loon. So there is that. But he continued working for the government. Which I think goes far in explaining the lunacy of government. I'm sure his explanation for the failure of alcohol prohibition was that insufficient money was spent. And no doubt he promised that when it came to drugs more than enough money would be spent. Quite a gravy train there eh? It is unfortunate that faith in Prohibition is waning. If only people believed and believed the same thing we would have? ISIS? Well they are against drugs AND alcohol. So they do have that going for them.

We do have the prohibition loons to thank for the drug cartels, the drug gangs, the drug police, the drug prisons, the drug courts, and at least a half trillion dollars a year of unnecessary medical expenses. However, the bat outbreak never materialized. So prohibition did prevent that.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Diogenes
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by Diogenes »

Teahive wrote:
GIThruster wrote:You're going to insist on your viewpoint regardless of the human suffering it will cause.
Do you acknowledge the human suffering your viewpoint will cause?


More so than does your side. To hear your side tell it, paradise merely awaits the legalization of all narcotics. We acknowledge the abuses committed in the War on Drugs, but does your side acknowledge the absolute horrors that await a Chinese style legalization?



In a word, no. You simply believe that everything will be sunshine and roses once people can consume any narcotics. You have a Pollyanna view of a legalized drug reality.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by Diogenes »

MSimon wrote:D,

I think it was the alcohol he drank that made him kill his wife.



From the article:


He said the only substance found in Kirk’s blood was THC, marijuana’s intoxicating chemical.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:
Teahive wrote:
GIThruster wrote:You're going to insist on your viewpoint regardless of the human suffering it will cause.
Do you acknowledge the human suffering your viewpoint will cause?


More so than does your side. To hear your side tell it, paradise merely awaits the legalization of all narcotics. We acknowledge the abuses committed in the War on Drugs, but does your side acknowledge the absolute horrors that await a Chinese style legalization?
In a word, no. You simply believe that everything will be sunshine and roses once people can consume any narcotics. You have a Pollyanna view of a legalized drug reality.
Who has ever suggested a Chinese style legalization? Don't get conquered by the British (or anyone for that matter) who then imposed completely totally unregulated legalization of Opium? That is analogous to legally regulated pot subject to taxes, regulation, zoning laws etc.? How about say regulating the THC content of pot "edibles" so that examples of accidental overdoses by novice users are far less likely? Easier to do when you have licensed providers who have to follow laws; as opposed to illegal drug pushers who completely ignore laws.

williatw
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by williatw »

GIThruster wrote:There are no legal pot smokers in CO. Cannabis is schedule one drug for the entire nation. It is illegal to smoke dope by federal law. Any time OBama wants top send the feds to CO, they can sweep up as many folks as they like, both users and sellers, and the sellers will do hard time. And yes, I know your point of view, but it is willingly ignorant of the facts. The facts have been posted here time and again, and obviously, you don't care about them. You're going to insist on your viewpoint regardless of the human suffering it will cause.

As He Leaves Office, Holder Open to Rescheduling Marijuana

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U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder says that marijuana’s classification alongside heroin as a Schedule I drug under federal law should be reconsidered.

In an interview with Yahoo’s Katie Couric, Holder said, “the question of whether or not they should be in the same category is something that I think we need to ask ourselves, and use science as the basis for making that determination.”

Holder, who is planning to announce his resignation as attorney general, has led the Obama administration’s evolving response to state-level marijuana reforms. During President Obama’s first term, Holder oversaw the federal shuttering of more state-legal medical marijuana providers than were closed by the George W. Bush administration’s Justice Department over two terms.

He also campaigned, just days before Election Day, against a 2010 measure that would have made California the first state to legalize marijuana. During the 2012 cycle, however, the Obama administration was virtually silent about legalization measures that appeared alongside the president’s reelection effort on ballots in Colorado and Washington State.

Following the strong passage of those initiatives, over the course of Obama’s second term Holder’s Justice Department has taken a largely hands-off approach to state-level marijuana reforms, even going so far as to issue specific criteria that, if abided by, would help to avoid federal interference.

Holder’s new remarks, on rescheduling, are the farthest he’s gone yet in saying that federal law should be reevaluated.

The federal government has been petitioned several times to reschedule marijuana over the past few decades, but has decided against a reclassification in every case. One rescheduling petition, however, filed by two state governors, is still pending.

Eric Sterling, head of the Criminal Justice Policy Foundation, criticized Holder for alluding to the need to reschedule without actually taking any action to make it happen. Holder “failed to drive the rest of the federal bureaucracy to confront this matter by … sending proposed legislation to Congress to enact rescheduling,” he said in an email to Marijuana.com.

The administration could also, if it wanted to, reschedule marijuana unilaterally under the Controlled Substances Act without any further action by Congress.

Couric also asked Holder whether he thinks marijuana should be decriminalized and, after he evasively said “that is something for Congress to decide,” she pressed him for his personal view. Holder then referenced the ongoing effort to implement legalization in Colorado and Washington before saying “we’re going to see what happens there and I think that’ll help inform us as to what we want to do on the federal level.”

“For you, the jury is still out?” Couric asked.

“Yeah, it is,” Holder said.

Bill Piper, director of national affairs for Drug Policy Alliance, believes a change in federal policy may be coming. “There is a chance the administration will reschedule marijuana before President Obama leaves office,” Piper said.
“They certainly seem to be moving in that direction. But more important than rescheduling is letting Colorado, Washington and other states legalize and regulate marijuana with little to no federal interference. With respect to marijuana, the administration not doing anything would be a huge victory; rescheduling or other positive action would be like adding gravy on top,” Piper added.

With Holder on his way out, it will likely fall to a new attorney general to oversee any rescheduling effort the administration takes up.

But that, as well as the longevity of the Justice Department’s current hands-off-the-states policy, largely depends on who that next attorney general is.

As Sterling sees it, “as he leaves office, [Holder] leaves these reforms on the shakiest possible ground, easily reversed by the well-entrenched enemies of the reforms who are still in the Department of Justice, or by a successor prepared to concede the issue at a confirmation hearing before a conservative Senate Judiciary Committee.”

And, unless the president is willing to push to actually change federal laws, the enforcement guidelines of this administration could easily be reversed with the stroke of a pen of the next president.
http://marijuana.com/news/2014/09/as-he ... marijuana/

Diogenes
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by Diogenes »

williatw wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
Teahive wrote: Do you acknowledge the human suffering your viewpoint will cause?


More so than does your side. To hear your side tell it, paradise merely awaits the legalization of all narcotics. We acknowledge the abuses committed in the War on Drugs, but does your side acknowledge the absolute horrors that await a Chinese style legalization?
In a word, no. You simply believe that everything will be sunshine and roses once people can consume any narcotics. You have a Pollyanna view of a legalized drug reality.
Who has ever suggested a Chinese style legalization? Don't get conquered by the British (or anyone for that matter) who then imposed completely totally unregulated legalization of Opium? That is analogous to legally regulated pot subject to taxes, regulation, zoning laws etc.? How about say regulating the THC content of pot "edibles" so that examples of accidental overdoses by novice users are far less likely? Easier to do when you have licensed providers who have to follow laws; as opposed to illegal drug pushers who completely ignore laws.


Over at Ace of Spades they have a term for this. It's called "Just the tip."


If you embrace the principle that taking drugs is a right (as do many advocates) then marijuana is just the opening hand. It's like "gay" rights. It won't ever stop. There *IS* no "goal"line beyond which it won't go.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Teahive
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by Teahive »

Diogenes wrote:More so than does your side. To hear your side tell it, paradise merely awaits the legalization of all narcotics. We acknowledge the abuses committed in the War on Drugs, but does your side acknowledge the absolute horrors that await a Chinese style legalization?

In a word, no. You simply believe that everything will be sunshine and roses once people can consume any narcotics. You have a Pollyanna view of a legalized drug reality.
Not at all.
I fully recognize that drug abuse causes suffering. I simply hold that, all things considered, legalization, regulation, and treatment would bring a preferable outcome compared to the WOD.


Diogenes wrote:Over at Ace of Spades they have a term for this. It's called "Just the tip."

If you embrace the principle that taking drugs is a right (as do many advocates) then marijuana is just the opening hand. It's like "gay" rights. It won't ever stop. There *IS* no "goal"line beyond which it won't go.
That's a nice argument for never, ever changing the law. If you allow one change, where will it stop?
Last edited by Teahive on Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

More so than does your side. To hear your side tell it, paradise merely awaits the legalization of all narcotics.
Well no. What we can expect is something similar to what alcohol prohibition did. Plus a little more

1. An end to prohibition violence
2. An end to gangs focused on distribution
3. An end to prohibition violators prisons
4. An end to family destruction from long prohibition violation sentencing
5. The end of incentives for police to focus on prohibition enforcement
6. The end of arbitrary property confiscations in the name of prohibition
7. The rate of crime clearance by police might go back to what it used to be before they focused on prohibition
8. At least a half a trillion dollars a year in medical savings from taking full advantage of cannabinoid medicine

I probably left a few things out. All prohibition has done is add a crime and violence problem to a substance use problem. And compared to alcohol it isn't much of a substance problem. Indications are that if we could switch people who had an alcohol problem to pot we'd save money and cut down on traffic fatalities.

Not to mention denying medicine to millions. Which is a crime against humanity. Personally I'd like to see prohibitionists brought up on charges for crimes against humanity. But there are too many of them. Once criminality reaches a certain proportion it is useless to prosecute them.

BTW - is this guy's claim of "pot made me do it" verified? How do we know pot didn't turn him into a bat and as a bat he had no control? After all we have the sworn testimony of a government expert that proved pot turned the expert into a bat. Why would a government expert lie to you? Well I guess when it comes to government you have no choice but to trust them.
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MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

D,

Please explain why Portugal - which has legalized all drugs - has not suffered the Chinese malady you so fear. They have been running that regime for nearly 15 years now and there is no movement to go back.

You wouldn't be some kind of government agent would you, trying to multiply fears for your own personal profit? Would your income depend in part on Prohibition? My condolences if so.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. ” H. L. Mencken

Or maybe you work for the cartels. Objectively that is in fact what you do. They along with the police as currently constituted depend on prohibition for much of their income.

It takes a person of very low morals to knowingly support the drug distribution cartels and deny people medicine. Funny enough these low morals people seem to be concentrated among so called conservatives. Well I must say you are doing a very good job of smearing the whole idea of limited government and low taxes by allying yourself with the murderers of the drug gangs. May your god have mercy on your soul. Because there is no mercy in politics.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

williatw
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by williatw »

Teahive wrote:
Diogenes wrote:Over at Ace of Spades they have a term for this. It's called "Just the tip."
If you embrace the principle that taking drugs is a right (as do many advocates) then marijuana is just the opening hand. It's like "gay" rights. It won't ever stop. There *IS* no "goal"line beyond which it won't go.
That's a nice argument for never, ever changing the law. If you allow one change, where will it stop?
Or in the case of the WOD "just the tip" (of the iceberg) as far as eroding our civil liberties. No knock warrants, militarization of our police forces, civil asset forfeiture without conviction, trial or even charges. Mass jailing of our citizenry at an unprecedented level. Your fav example China's Opium legalization however was nothing like that. There was no gradual erosion of "values" or "decadence"; they were simply conquered by the British who forced the Opium almost literally down their throats. After all Opium was legal in Britain at the time (as well as in the United States) and had been indefinitely; didn't do the same there. Difference maybe is not being conquered by a hostile power bent on making as much addiction as possible literally at gun-point.

MSimon
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Re: Latest drug addict loons.

Post by MSimon »

Just the tip?

Well the tip is alcohol. Once you allow that most dangerous intoxicating drug how can you stop anything else?

What is needed is a prohibition on all drugs. Starting with alcohol.

And let us not leave out that mild anti-depressant tobacco.

Once you allow people to take any kind of chemical that affects consciousness it is difficult to draw the line.

And of course you have the problem of diversions. And basement chemistry. What we need as williatw points out is a police state. Everyone must be monitored for Purity Of Essence. Only by continuous surveillance can this menace be nipped in the bud.

Big Brother will protect you from your fears. Embrace him. Big Brother loves you.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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