When the POG was not totally the POG

[MSimon]

Each nation has created a god, and the god has always resembled his creators. He hated and loved what they hated and loved, and he was invariably found on the side of those in power. Each god was intensely patriotic, and detested all nations but his own. All these gods demanded praise, flattery, and worship. Most of them were pleased with sacrifice, and the smell of innocent blood has ever been considered a divine perfume.

http://www.pbs.org/godinamerica/people/ ... rsoll.html

From the comments at:

http://reason.com/archives/2013/01/24/rational-man

based on an article originally published here:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/ ... ?nopager=1

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With the outbreak of the American Civil War, he raised the 11th Regiment Illinois Volunteer Cavalry and took command. The regiment fought in the Battle of Shiloh. Ingersoll was later captured, then released on his promise that he would not fight again, which was common practice early in the war.

After the war, he served as Illinois Attorney General. He was a prominent member of the Republican Party and, though he never held an elected position, he was nonetheless an active participant in politics. According to Robert Nisbet, Ingersoll was a "staunch conservative Republican."[6] His speech nominating James G. Blaine for the 1876 presidential election was unsuccessful, as Rutherford B. Hayes received the Republican nomination, but the speech itself, known as the "Plumed Knight" speech, was considered a model of political oratory. (Franklin Roosevelt probably used it as a model for his "Happy Warrior" speech when nominating Alfred E. Smith for president in 1928). His radical views on religion, slavery, woman's suffrage, and other issues of the day effectively prevented him from ever pursuing or holding political offices higher than that of state attorney general. Illinois Republicans tried to pressure him into running for governor on the condition that Ingersoll conceal his agnosticism during the campaign, which he refused to do on the basis that concealing information from the public was immoral.

Ingersoll was involved in several prominent trials as an attorney, notably the Star Route trials, a major political scandal in which his clients were acquitted. He also defended a New Jersey man charged with blasphemy. Although he did not win acquittal, his vigorous defense is considered to have discredited blasphemy laws and few other prosecutions followed.


and

Ingersoll was most noted as an orator, the most popular of the age, when oratory was public entertainment. He spoke on every subject, from Shakespeare to Reconstruction, but his most popular subjects were agnosticism and the sanctity and refuge of the family. He committed his speeches to memory although they were sometimes more than three hours long. His audiences were said never to be restless.

Many of Ingersoll's speeches advocated freethought and humanism, and often poked fun at religious belief. For this the press often attacked him, but neither his views nor the negative press could stop his rising popularity. At the height of Ingersoll's fame, audiences would pay $1 or more to hear him speak, a giant sum for his day.

In a lecture entitled "The Great Infidels," he attacked the Christian doctrine of Hell: "All the meanness, all the revenge, all the selfishness, all the cruelty, all the hatred, all the infamy of which the heart of man is capable, grew blossomed, and bore fruit in this one word--Hell."[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_G._Ingersoll

[rj40]

Are there any religions that allow for a person who otherwise doesn't believe in that particular religion to be considered good?

What about going to heaven - if it is believed by that religion?

"Pat Smith professes to be an agnostic, sometimes an atheist, and we all think Pat is wrong. But what a good person all the same! Pat's going to heaven for sure."

[Stubby]

First: POG?

Second:
If a person's goodness, without belief in a god, is enough to get them in to 'heaven', then that makes 'god' pretty redundant.

[rj40]

First: POG?

Second:
If a person's goodness, without belief in a god, is enough to get them in to 'heaven', then that makes 'god' pretty redundant.

OK. But are there any religions that have this "escape clause?" Whether it makes sense or not.

[MSimon]

Are there any religions that allow for a person who otherwise doesn't believe in that particular religion to be considered good?

What about going to heaven - if it is believed by that religion?

"Pat Smith professes to be an agnostic, sometimes an atheist, and we all think Pat is wrong. But what a good person all the same! Pat's going to heaven for sure."

Jews are very into that. One not be a believer in anything. All you have to do is be kind to dumb animals i.e. humans.

A good soul is rated higher than a person who follows all the forms and is not a good soul.

Kindness is the highest virtue.

[MSimon]

POG = Party of God.

[kunkmiester]

Mormons have a bit of a "if you don't know the law..." clause. To make a long story short, if you're not taught the law correctly, it's the fault of the teacher, not you. If you follow the law you're taught the best you can, it's good enough to save you from hell, though other eternal blessings won't be extended.

For example, we believe that the gospel was corrupted after the apostles died, and wasn't truly restored until Joseph Smith. Bloody few of those people are going to hell--any sin they committed that was due to not having a complete gospel is the fault of their teachers, most of which are in the same boat.

[Stubby]

what no eternal free beer and pizza?

[Diogenes]

Jews are very into that. One not be a believer in anything. All you have to do is be kind to dumb animals i.e. humans.

A good soul is rated higher than a person who follows all the forms and is not a good soul.

Kindness is the highest virtue.

Some sorts of kindness are not really kindness at all. Giving people things often results in dependency. That is how the United States got into this financial mess. The end result may be that the very people who we were attempting to help may suffer far worse when the system comes crashing down.