Are UFO's Advanced Science craft?

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Diogenes
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Are UFO's Advanced Science craft?

Post by Diogenes »

Are any of the Unidentified Flying Objects some sort of transport craft which uses advanced science technology to propel them?


Image



I don't know. I've seen a lot of pictures and videos over the years which are hard to explain otherwise. I've seen nothing which I regard as conclusive. Just because I can't think of another explanation for some of the strange pictures and videos does not mean that one does not exist.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.


That being said, I can operate under a postulate. Something need not be proven true to consider and predict the ramifications of it should it turn out to be true. Anyone who has been involved in troubleshooting likely has experience at keeping multiple theories in mind simultaneously, in the hopes that one of the theories will turn out to be the correct one.


Can the various images we have observed over the years represent some sort of advanced Science transport craft? It is an explanation worth considering.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

AcesHigh
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Post by AcesHigh »

maybe yes, to some very few cases. Probably no to most cases. There is also a decent albeit small probability of no to all cases, although obviously, you wont ever be able to analize them all, so its not verifiable.



however, I see no reason why all governments on Earth deny UFOs as extraterrestrial craft, as well as the scientific community.

It seems that UFOs on purpose like to be on the limits of being seen and at the same time not be really identifiable. You never get good footage and all best footage (that you can really identify a spacecraft, not only lights or other weird phenomena) is mostly proved to be fake.

their purpose also cant be more misteryous, just so we say "they are more intelligent, or too different for us to understand them". Quite convenient imho.


maybe they are just waiting for Woodward, Paul March and GiThruster to effectively build useful ME devices for destroying us before we belicous humans can get to bold and become dangerous in a galactic scale. Probably they get near enough to connect to our wi-fi networks and post at NextBigFuture as GoatGuy, to discredit ME.


Something need not be proven true to consider and predict the ramifications of it should it turn out to be true.
I totally agree with that. No wonder we posted about ME being a possible answer for the dark energy mistery. Its a fun speculation, but not of much use yet.

hopefully, it WILL be a matter of speculation in the future because hopefully ME will be proved to the point of scientific consensus.

although in the small chance imho that the UFO´s are all spacecraft as GIThruster believes, we can´t really predict their reaction to humanity suddenly being able to travel among the stars.


ps: even if you dont like me, maybe you can be considerate enough to answer whats is your view, knowing that you are religious, regarding meeting extraterrestrials. I mean, regarding the Genesis book, Jesus (human) as son of god, god himself...

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

AcesHigh wrote:. . .I see no reason why all governments on Earth deny UFOs as extraterrestrial craft, as well as the scientific community.
They don't. You're misinformed. Only the US does what you're suggesting. The rest of the world is much more open on the issue.

Again, you're a victim of your ignorance and you would not hold these counter-factual positions if you were to invest a few hours with Kean's book.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

AcesHigh
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Post by AcesHigh »

GIThruster wrote:
AcesHigh wrote:. . .I see no reason why all governments on Earth deny UFOs as extraterrestrial craft, as well as the scientific community.
They don't. You're misinformed. Only the US does what you're suggesting. The rest of the world is much more open on the issue.
open as saying "they dont know what the UFOs are" or open as in admiting they are extraterrestrial craft? What country government had admited some UFO phenomena as extraterrestrial craft?

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

Off the top of my head I can't answer that question. I can tell you that the official US Government position is that UFO's are not extra-terrestirial craft and that is not the position of any other governments so far as I know. Again, you'll get that info in Kean's book.

The French have for many decades been pretty outspoken on this issue, which is why when Steven Spielberg wrote Close Encounters of the Third Kind, he had the science team led by the French character Claude Lacombe. Lacombe was modeled after a real life French scientist who worked for the French government at that time. France has never had an attitude similar to that here in the US, but then again, the French probably didn't have the social upheavals we had here in the 50's due to the saucer craze, and the French probably don't have any downed craft in heir possession.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Aero
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Post by Aero »

UFO's as extraterrestrial craft ...

We shouldn't overlook the multiverse explanation of UFO's as interdimentional craft. Afterall, that explanation only requires two unbelievable things before breakfast but it very neatly circumvents the light speed limit. In fact, all we need to make it work is a Heim like theory that is correct and that's only one unbelievable thing before breakfast. Of course the extraterrestrial theory only requires one thing, too, that is for ME theory to be correct, worm holes and all.
Aero

AcesHigh
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Post by AcesHigh »

Aero wrote:UFO's as extraterrestrial craft ...

We shouldn't overlook the multiverse explanation of UFO's as interdimentional craft. Afterall, that explanation only requires two unbelievable things before breakfast but it very neatly circumvents the light speed limit. In fact, all we need to make it work is a Heim like theory that is correct and that's only one unbelievable thing before breakfast. Of course the extraterrestrial theory only requires one thing, too, that is for ME theory to be correct, worm holes and all.
it also necessitates extraterrestrail/extraplanar beings that visit us for mysterious reasons that noone can decipher, never fully revealing themselves, but never fully hiding themselves either.

however, I am still appaled that any super advanced UFO craft has ever been downed by malfunctions or by primitive human missiles/rockets.


I know that if WE humans ever create spacecrafts with ME, our track record will be better than that against primitive alien civilizations.

GIThruster
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Post by GIThruster »

AcesHigh wrote:I am still appaled that any super advanced UFO craft has ever been downed by malfunctions or by primitive human missiles/rockets.


I know that if WE humans ever create spacecrafts with ME, our track record will be better than that against primitive alien civilizations.
We don't know anything like this. There's no way to tell from the information we have, just how many visitors we have in how many places around the globe each day. All we can do is guess, so concerns about spacecraft failing at such and such a rate are not valid concerns. You have to have the numbers to make an estimate of the rate.

Odds are, there are a small handful of downed craft that have been found around the world. Maybe there was one at Roswell. Maybe one at Kecksburg, PA. The Russians claimed to have one. That's not a lot, especially if there are visitors in our skies daily and have been for millennia.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

DeltaV
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Post by DeltaV »

GIThruster wrote:The French have for many decades been pretty outspoken on this issue, which is why when Steven Spielberg wrote Close Encounters of the Third Kind, he had the science team led by the French character Claude Lacombe. Lacombe was modeled after a real life French scientist who worked for the French government at that time.
The French scientist's name is Jacques Vallée.

Five Arguments Against the Extraterrestrial Origin of Unidentified Flying Objects
Crop Circles: “Signs” From Above or Human Artifacts?

I was impressed the first time I read one of his books, because he emphasized the absurdity of numerous UFO encounters, suggestive of some sort of continuing disinformation campaign. Intentional 'absurdity' combined with follow-on witness character assassination is among the best ways to promote public dismissal of such reports.

In one of his books (I forget which) he discusses a UFO incident where somebody walked up to a saucer that had landed and saw inside a human male in a Jesuit priest's outfit, cooking pancakes. Then there are accounts of a connection between the Thule and Vril societies and 'Nazi' UFO technology, the "Mystery Airships" of the late 1800s in the US, more recent observations near Area 51, the Phoenix triangles, elaborate crop circles apparently caused by microwave heating near classified facilities in the UK, cow laser surgery, alien abduction books authored by CIA asset Whitley Strieber, unreported secret society connections of debunkers, and so on.

A grainy picture of a hidden science/technology, practiced for centuries by various secret societies, such as the Jesuits, Masons, Rosicrucians, etc. and kept classified, ostensibly in the interest of national/oligarchical/ecclesiastical 'security', begins to emerge. I don't want to single out a particular secret society or religious brotherhood, given the prevailing poor data quality and apparently ongoing disinformation campaigns.

Could it be that any technology which begins to approach in its effectiveness those secret technologies, reserved for whatever purposes, becomes a candidate for suppression?

Just look at what is happening with Polywell...

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

The rest of the world is much more open on the issue.
In Austria, there simply is not official position on the subject, but some of the crackpots in our government certainly believe in them. The others deny their existance out or religious believes. They are both idiots.
My position is that I have not seen any evidence that convinces me of aliens. I would rather believe it was a secret spy plane or some other (US) government vehicle. Also note in this context that most UFO sightings are in the US. Personally I think that the majority is optical illusions like the planet venus appearing very bright and seeming to follow (since it is far away). Phil Plait has written a lot about this.
Some abduction stories can be attributed to sleep paralysis. My wife had this and she says that this makes perfect sense.

AcesHigh
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Post by AcesHigh »

Skipjack wrote:
The rest of the world is much more open on the issue.
In Austria, there simply is not official position on the subject, but some of the crackpots in our government certainly believe in them. The others deny their existance out or religious believes. They are both idiots.
My position is that I have not seen any evidence that convinces me of aliens. I would rather believe it was a secret spy plane or some other (US) government vehicle. Also note in this context that most UFO sightings are in the US. Personally I think that the majority is optical illusions like the planet venus appearing very bright and seeming to follow (since it is far away). Phil Plait has written a lot about this.
Some abduction stories can be attributed to sleep paralysis. My wife had this and she says that this makes perfect sense.
do you agree that from an evolutionary point of view, the "greys" are just too much human-like?

Betruger
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Post by Betruger »

I don't know about ETs but someone I know whose word is perfectly solid to me, told me he got a UFO sighting from pretty darn close.

Right off the bat the dynamic is this: from him to me it is basically as incredible as if heard from anyone else - the idea that craft like this (black triangles) have never been caught by high enough quality recording technology to leave no doubt about the, - no less incredible except for the fact that he is and always has been the exact opposite of a BSer.
From me to you on the internet, credibly goes straight to negligible.

And yet this would be (because, for me RE: every other "UFO witness", the dynamic is the same as the latter part of the above) yet another sighting of these things. So despite all this I'm really damned curious about the truth of these sightings.

The black craft in question, he described to me, had a subtle modern appliance (think refrigerator, etc) sound to it when it got close as it slowly hovered past them from one or two hundred yards in woods. I don't really remember the rest of the description of the craft itself.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

seedload
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Post by seedload »

GIThruster wrote:Odds are, there are a small handful of downed craft that have been found around the world. Maybe there was one at Roswell. Maybe one at Kecksburg, PA. The Russians claimed to have one. That's not a lot, especially if there are visitors in our skies daily and have been for millennia.
I wonder what the hell we are doing with the captured alien spaceships we have. Seems pretty pathetic that we haven't figured out their power source and solved the worlds energy problems by now. I guess we are just stupid Earthlings, incapable of understanding their advanced technology but completely capable of keeping the biggest secret in recorded history.

The only thing more pathetic would be if we were to develop interstellar technologies of our own, travel to a distant civilized planet, and then spend millenniums popping in and out, grabbing aliens, taking samples, shoving sticks up their orifices, randomly slaughtering their food, ducking in and out of their volcanoes, making pretty circles in their crops, and randomly getting caught by witnesses who always don't seem to have the least bit of ability to properly document or record the event.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

djolds1
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Post by djolds1 »

AcesHigh wrote:do you agree that from an evolutionary point of view, the "greys" are just too much human-like?
Actually, no. Stephen Jay Gould's "Random Walk" evolutionary hypothesis does not hold up. Consider that the eye has evolved independently at least three times, and has ended up essentially identical every time. There is a deep order underlying biological development and all structure - phi derivatives and mathematical attractors IMO, tho both are modern derivatives of the Platonic Forms concept - which limits the possible forms far more than Gould would admit to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Conway_Morris
http://www.johnreilly.info/liso.htm
http://www.amazon.com/The-Golden-Ratio- ... 0767908163

There are 35 phyla in the animal kingdom; 34 of them emerged during the Cambrian explosion in a typical logistic/ "S" curve of hyperbolic rapid development. I would bet good money that those 35 generic bauplans define more or less the totality of the number of animal forms possible in a terrestrial environment.

IOW, its possible sapient trilobites may have inherited the Earth, but not something totally alien.
Vae Victis

Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes »

AcesHigh wrote:
do you agree that from an evolutionary point of view, the "greys" are just too much human-like?

Form follows function. The Humanoid form is very functional for producing *OUR* technology. What other form would be superior? Science Fiction writers have tried for years to present aliens which have alternative forms from humanoid, but any practical analysis will demonstrate that most of these are silly and non-functional.

If you have a suggestion for a viable alien form that is not "human-like" I would certainly be interested in considering your alternative. In the absence of that, I would suggest that the necessary physiological requirements for a species capable of producing high technology is very likely going to resemble a human form.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

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