The Santa Claus effect.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:10 pm

Been trying to get this point through to people for a very long time. Don't think I'm having much success despite the obvious logic and supporting data.

Belief in hell, according to international data, is associated with reduced crime

The finding surfaced from a comprehensive analysis of 26 years of data involving 143,197 people in 67 countries.

http://phys.org/news/2012-06-belief-hel ... crime.html

choff · Post by **choff** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:20 pm

Does this mean belief in heaven is associated with increased crime?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:22 pm

choff wrote:Does this mean belief in heaven is associated with increased crime?

For Muslims, yes.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:37 pm

So lets have everyone believe in the boogie man or the flying spaghetti monster, or some other fantasy, so they dont commit crimes?
Sounds like a bad idea to me!

kcdodd · Post by **kcdodd** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:26 am

You sure do know how to find junk science.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:51 am

D,

As I understand it you are not a believer. Ironic init?

What keeps you from being a criminal?

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:34 pm

What keeps you from being a criminal?

I think he probably is one. My guess is tax fraud on the basis of false claims of being a priest for a religious community of sorts. This is very easy and very common in the US

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:39 pm

I was hoping to be a priest for the Church of All Worlds. Alas I found out it was mostly fiction. And those who "practiced" the reality were lunatics. Or running a scam.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:47 pm

Skipjack wrote:So lets have everyone believe in the boogie man or the flying spaghetti monster, or some other fantasy, so they dont commit crimes?
Sounds like a bad idea to me!

It's been helping civilize the world for the last 2,000 years. It doesn't always work, but it works better than anything else that has been tried.

You got a better idea?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:48 pm

kcdodd wrote:You sure do know how to find junk science.

Physorg is a fairly reputable source, or so I have always thought.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:50 pm

MSimon wrote:D,

As I understand it you are not a believer. Ironic init?

What keeps you from being a criminal?

Used to be a believer. As the twig is bent, the tree shall grow.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:53 pm

Skipjack wrote:
What keeps you from being a criminal?
I think he probably is one. My guess is tax fraud on the basis of false claims of being a priest for a religious community of sorts. This is very easy and very common in the US

We are coming to a point where it is difficult to NOT break any laws, accidentally or otherwise.

I drive without my seat-belt all the time. Fortunately the fine is only $20.00, and the cops usually don't even bother.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:54 pm

MSimon wrote:I was hoping to be a priest for the Church of All Worlds. Alas I found out it was mostly fiction. And those who "practiced" the reality were lunatics. Or running a scam.

You and L. Ron Hubbard.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:06 pm

It's been helping civilize the world for the last 2,000 years.

I guess that depends on how you define "civlize". If you cast a wide enough net to include the past 2000 years, then you should probably go back further. I mean religion was an integral part in many of the ancient civilizations, going back much longer than 2000 years. Whether religion really helped is debatable. At least back then it fullfilled a function as filling holes in the scientific knowledge. Nowadays it is more than often competing with science. I have a problem with that.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:52 pm

The salient issue is not religion so much as a specific belief in an afterlife that includes suffering for the wicked. That goes back 2,000 years. The Jewish notion of Sheol was not so refined as to explain what the afterlife was like. The much earlier Zoroastrian religion did have very specific teaching that there was an afterlife and that it included various levels of suffering for those who did evil, but Zoroastrianism has been pretty close to extinct since thre advent of Islam. Eastern religions that promote belief in Karma, also are proposing a system of ultimate justice, but that system does not include specific suffering in an afterlife. Rather, it's usually tied to reincarnation and relatively little suffering in this life.

The point is pretty obvious: when you believe there is an ultimate reckoning, you act differently than if you don't.