Was Trayvon high?

[GIThruster]

I also want to wait to learn more details but it seems extremely unlikely to me that Zimmerman will be found guilty. Lets take a worst case scenario.

Suppose that Zimmerman was a racist, and angry, and looking for trouble. (Hard to believe since he was mixed race himself and called the police--not what people do who are looking for trouble.) Lets suppose too that the doctored audio tape really does have Zimmerman using a racial epithet--(though I listened to it 5 times and never heard what CNN wanted me to hear.) Lets suppose Zimmerman chased down a younger, stronger, bigger man, antagonized him and that man started swinging on him.

What we still know is that Zimmerman had no abrasions on his knuckles and no witnesses saw him strike Martin. The witnesses did however see Martin on top of Zimmerman, beating him fiercely. We know Zimmerman was quite beat up and with the abrasions on the back of his head, likely in mortal danger of having his head bashed in.

Under circumstances like that, no matter if Zimmerman could have acted so as to avoid the encounter, once his life is threatened he is entitled to defend himself. In FL, he's entitled to use lethal force to defend himself.

I see almost no possibility that Zimmerman will be found culpable. Were this to happen, there would be almost no chance of a legal defense or "righteous shooting" under any circumstances in the future. And of course this is what the news media wanted when the forced the issue. They're trying to manipulate popular culture and the legal system through propaganda. It's the news media that should be brought up on charges, though I can't think of a single law they've broken. There must be some sort of law against inciting violence or some such, but it would be different for each state.

[Diogenes]

Progressives have made sure Trayvon can't get a job by mandating minimum wages.

And conservatives would make sure that noone would want that job if they lowered minimum wages like they would like to.
Plus by lowering the wages, you have less purchase power and that will slow the economy.

You are a trip. I cannot comprehend how you can have such a bizarre understanding of economics and reality.

As Lee Iaccoca told the Unions during the Chrysler bankruptcy situation. (and I paraphrase) " I have no jobs at $50.00 / hour. I have 120,000 Jobs at "$25.00 / hour."

Ignorant silly people don't understand that the push for increasing the minimum wage has nothing at all to do with helping low income people. Most Union contracts have their compensation linked to the Federal Minimum wage. Every time Minimum wage is increased, Union Employees get automatic percentage based pay increases.

Of COURSE they are going to continuously demand that Minimum Wage be increased! All it does on the bottom end is eliminate entry level jobs.

[Diogenes]

Diogenes, come out and say it. You are just one step away from it. The fault was chemicals, we need to get the UN or Michelle O. to give everyone a certified approved drug free menu. No more big sugar sodas for NYC, too dangerous!

The "fault" is the belief that putting chemicals into your system is harmless to others, but you keep repeating your distortion. It appears to be the only argument you have.

[Diogenes]

Skipjack, between you and Diogenes you could really set the world right. We'll put you in charge of wages and Diogenes in charge of the menu. Problem solved. Big Brother knows best.

And we'll put you in charge of entertainment, though I fear your act will grow stale after awhile.

[Diogenes]

Progressives have made sure Trayvon can't get a job by mandating minimum wages.

And conservatives would make sure that noone would want that job if they lowered minimum wages like they would like to.
Plus by lowering the wages, you have less purchase power and that will slow the economy.

Dude. For a smart guy you are economically clueless. And I really do think you are smart.

I used to think he was smart. That was before I got to know him better.

[Diogenes]

No he does not. He exercised poor judgement, but then so did Trayvon in the way he responded to it.

Everybody nowaydays is so full of themselves that they want to start Sh*t over nothing, and that's exactly what happened. Sh*t got started over a whole bunch of nothing.

I would suggest that being high does not encourage good judgement, and perhaps a sober person would have done things differently.

Zimmerman does not deserve to "rot" for following someone around who apparently became unreasonably aggressive without just provocation. Yes, Zimmerman was an annoying little pr*ck, but his lack of judgement was not excessive.

You are speculating that he was high and that he was the aggressor, neither of which fits the evidence as given so far.

You gotta be kidding me? What evidence are YOU looking at? Did you even bother to look at the linked article?

If we're going to speculate all day, perhaps Zimmerman scared Trayvon, who began to run away, but was grabbed by Zimmerman, promptly leading to Trayvon fighting for his presumed life as he's the one being attacked. See I can play this game too.

Yes, when you do it, that's exactly what it is; A "Game." Sorry, i'm not interested in playing a game. If you want to go romping around in fantasy land, then you can do it without my interest.

As the adult in the situation, Zimmerman should be held responsible for the results, pure and simple. He aggressively approached the young man, he provoked a fight or flight response, he did so knowing this would happen and knowing he had a gun. Zimmerman was a man looking for a fight, who was unjustified in his anger towards a youth walking home. He assumed Trayvon to be one of the thugs and when police were notified, still decided to take matters into his own hands. This is criminal negligence at a minimum.

You need to get better news sources. You have a severe lack of information which interestingly enough didn't stop you from espousing an opinion anyway. You are reading or listening to the wrong sources. They aren't keeping you as informed as you ought to be.

You could start by looking at that information in the link at the top of this thread.

[Diogenes]

Scott, sounds like you have it all figured out, good for you.

Figured out, no.....but flying by ones teeth can be fun at times. If Trayvon were a 12 year old kid, we'd blame Zimmerman. If he were a 90 year old man we'd blame Zimmerman. If he wasn't he, but she, we'd blame Zimmerman. I've avoided the race issue completely at this point in all my speculation, so I don't see an issue.

The bottom line is the responsible person in the situation (the adult) made a horrendous decision that lead to the death of a non-adult. Very wise advice was even given to Zimmerman by way of the 911 dispatch. Heck, had he waited 5 minutes, all of this would've been avoided. His negligence and poor decision making ability as an adult resulted in a death.

I don't think it can be denied at this point Zimmeran started this unfortunate event and as such should be tried for negligence resulting in death. Trayvon wasn't stalking Zimmerman like prey, but Zimmerman was definitely on the hunt.

What makes it so certain that Zimmerman was stalking Martin? I think it was the other way around. As things come out I think it more than likely that Trayvon was part of the gang of kids that had been burglarizing houses and generally terrorizing the neighborhood. I think the watch captain Zimmerman was a thorn in the gang's side, patrolling around the neighborhood. I can understand why the gang would be upset about him, especially after one of the gang members was caught and sent to jail. A few puffs with his buddies and Trayvon was all set to beat on the pest when he saw him.

I guess Scott missed the videos where Trayvon was refereeing UFC type matches between some of his fight club friends. Apparently Trayvon felt that he was something of a badass.

An eyewitness said they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman punching him in the face and beating his head against the concrete. Yeah, Zimmerman shouldn't have picked on the helpless little kid.

[Diogenes]

While we're on the subject of people hurting others because they're "high"...



Girlfriend of face-eating attacker blames drugs or voodoo

The girlfriend of the face-eating attacker who mauled off most of another man’s face said her boyfriend was either unknowingly drugged or placed under a voodoo curse.

Authorities said when the officer, identified as Jose Rivera, arrived, he was forced to open fire and kill Eugene when he continued to savagely attack Poppo’s face. Officials said Eugene growled at the officer and kept eating at the man’s face.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... oodoo?lite



Yeah, i'm betting on the drugs. Another victimless crime.

[mvanwink5]

Diogenes, nice mix up of issues. Using your arguments, guns are the cause of crime. Look, people do things. People act. guns don't act. Drugs don't act. People take drugs or use guns. The issue is responsibility. Assigning responsibility to inanimate things is nonsense. If the cannibal took the drugs then he is responsible. If someone slipped him the drugs, then that other person is responsible, assuming.... assuming one can show cause and effect of the drugs and the cannibalistic behavior.
Best regards

[paperburn1]

Diogenes, nice mix up of issues. Using your arguments, guns are the cause of crime. Look, people do things. People act. guns don't act. Drugs don't act. People take drugs or use guns. The issue is responsibility. Assigning responsibility to inanimate things is nonsense. If the cannibal took the drugs then he is responsible. If someone slipped him the drugs, then that other person is responsible, assuming.... assuming one can show cause and effect of the drugs and the cannibalistic behavior.
Best regards

I have to disagree with "drugs dont act" we have been controling behavior with drugs for decades

[ScottL]

Scott, sounds like you have it all figured out, good for you.

Figured out, no.....but flying by ones teeth can be fun at times. If Trayvon were a 12 year old kid, we'd blame Zimmerman. If he were a 90 year old man we'd blame Zimmerman. If he wasn't he, but she, we'd blame Zimmerman. I've avoided the race issue completely at this point in all my speculation, so I don't see an issue.

The bottom line is the responsible person in the situation (the adult) made a horrendous decision that lead to the death of a non-adult. Very wise advice was even given to Zimmerman by way of the 911 dispatch. Heck, had he waited 5 minutes, all of this would've been avoided. His negligence and poor decision making ability as an adult resulted in a death.

I don't think it can be denied at this point Zimmeran started this unfortunate event and as such should be tried for negligence resulting in death. Trayvon wasn't stalking Zimmerman like prey, but Zimmerman was definitely on the hunt.

What makes it so certain that Zimmerman was stalking Martin? I think it was the other way around. As things come out I think it more than likely that Trayvon was part of the gang of kids that had been burglarizing houses and generally terrorizing the neighborhood. I think the watch captain Zimmerman was a thorn in the gang's side, patrolling around the neighborhood. I can understand why the gang would be upset about him, especially after one of the gang members was caught and sent to jail. A few puffs with his buddies and Trayvon was all set to beat on the pest when he saw him.

The details for this have come out, Trayvon was new to the area, so it's kind of hard for him to be part of a gang of kids if he doesn't know anyone in that place. Mind you this is his father's girlfriend's apartment in another city. That and the dispatcher said not to follow Trayvon and Zimmerman said he did anways. Where are you getting your story?

[ScottL]

I guess Scott missed the videos where Trayvon was refereeing UFC type matches between some of his fight club friends. Apparently Trayvon felt that he was something of a badass.

An eyewitness said they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman punching him in the face and beating his head against the concrete. Yeah, Zimmerman shouldn't have picked on the helpless little kid.

Come on, at least read the report and Zimmerman's testimony prior to arrest. He's repeatedly said he followed the teen because he thoughthe was part of a group that had recently robbed the area, however; Trayvon was completely new to the area, that was the whole reason he was there. He had a disciplinary problem and got sent off to his father in another city.

I'm sorry but if Trayvon were a Straight A student and white, who had this happen to him, you wouldn't even bring it up.

[ScottL]

Scott, I could never see myself, if I was 6'3," or otherwise, pounding someone else's head in the ground, beating his face with my fist, breaking the person's nose, blacking his eyes, and him never landing a punch, and this is based on reported forensics. However you twist this into imagining this young man into a person who was defending himself is beyond me. This "story" about this kid going out for skittles has been made up by the media. It stinks. Be that as it may, it sounds like there will be a trial and Zimmerman sounds like he has a good defense lawyer. We will just have to see what happens at the trial.

To me it looks like one of those lynch mob wild west TV shows where some one whips a mob up into a frenzy to go string someone up, and not waste time sorting things out. It really smells to high heaven. And, I really take a dislike to this portrayal of a 6'3" man as a 10 year old kid every time I see a picture of Martin on the news.

Your story of what happened matches the way the news got it hook line and sinker, not the forensics as shown, but maybe there is more forensics...I trust forensics, I take witness statements with a block of salt. I worked 30 years in a power plant and I know from experience that what people remember, or report as memory, can be completely backwards, and it takes in depth investigation to figure out what happened, what to repair, or make required modifications.

But maybe you have a better read on what happened.

The story about the skittles has been confirmed repeatedly. Hell there are photos and a convenient store clerk's testimony, but yeah those pictures were clearly doctor'd up and the clerk is a liar (probably Rossi). As for ever seeing someone do that, I would in a heart beat if I felt threatened. I wouldn't stop at simple injury, I'd kill the individual per my right for self-defense and in the state of Florida, the idea behind Stand Your Ground. I'd be well within my rights and would exercise them to the fullest. There's only one way to be sure they aren't retaliating or further harming me.

[mvanwink5]

I have to disagree with "drugs dont act" we have been controling behavior with drugs for decades

The active subject is "we."
Best regards

[mvanwink5]

Scott,
So, you know Trayvon was being threatened with the gun first, or did you make that up? I suppose one could fantasize anything. Forensics I have heard back up the story that Zimmerman was on the ground being beat with Martin's bloody knuckles, Zimmerman having never laid a hand on Martin. I doubt a jury will convict Zimmerman based on your fantasies, but who knows?
Best regards