Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Discuss life, the universe, and everything with other members of this site. Get to know your fellow polywell enthusiasts.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by ladajo »

The Average Joe is unfortunately not taught escalation management, use of force pyramids, or the deadly force triangle.

In any event, most places all you have to do is be able to articulate fear of serious injury or death for you or another. Other wide spread easy outs are caught in the act of arson or rape.

Where it tends to get sticky is if the perp(s) "flee". For example, Massachusetts went through a "fleeing felon" law cycle a bunch of years back that created incredible issues for the police. It was since be removed after the state paid out a bunch of money to jackassess or their families.

In a civilian role, I've fortunately so far only needed to draw a weapon twice. Neither time, thankfully, resulted in the other guy being dropped; although the nutjob crackhead on my latenight front doorstep in VA probably had no idea he was one twitch away from becoming a statistic. I too prefer my .45, and in an assessed difference with the above gentleman, my service ammo would have more than likely left the "stomach wound" guy critical or dead and the shoulder guy serious or critical after large chunks of body mass were removed/jellified. Meh.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by williatw »

Couple taken hostage kill murder suspect, jail escapee in Mississippi


Image

Rafael Arnez McCloud allegedly had killed once before. More than eight months later -- and days after escaping a Mississippi jail -- he appeared poised to kill again. Wielding a bloody knife, he held a man, a woman and their 5-year-old son hostage in a bathroom of their Vicksburg home.

But this time, he was the one who ended up dead.

Early Thursday, the 24-year-old wife and mother, who'd been allowed to leave the bathroom, returned with a handgun and fired one shot at McCloud, police said. She then freed her husband, who "took control of the weapon and fired additional shots, striking McCloud."
Vicksburg police Capt. Sandra Williams said after the couple took down McCloud, "There's no telling how many lives were saved."

Now, many on social media are calling what happened Thursday morning in Vicksburg as a textbook example of why citizens should be armed -- just in case they encounter someone like McCloud, they can act.The National Rifle Association, the country's leading gun rights group, reposted CNN.com's story on its Twitter page, eliciting responses like, "Good for them, I'm sure if they weren't armed, he would have killed them too."






http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/us/missis ... -hostages/

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by williatw »

CCRKBA says Mississippi case underscores value of guns in the home

Yesterday’s fatal shooting of a dangerous escaped criminal suspect by a man and wife he had taken hostage in their own home in Mississippi illustrates the value of having a gun for protection, according to a the head of a national gun rights group who coincidentally co-authored a book about armed self-defense.

The story of how a couple and their 5-year-old son were taken captive by escaped murder suspect Rafael McCloud even made it to the pages of yesterday’s Seattle Times. The incident would make for a gripping book, one police source in Vicksburg told Examiner this morning. McCloud had been in custody since January on charges of kidnapping, rape and murder of 69-year-old Sharen Wilson last summer. He escaped March 2 by holding a homemade knife on a jail guard.

According to the Vicksburg Police and various published reports, McCloud forced his way into the Vicksburg couple’s home early Thursday, at knifepoint. He tied up the husband and wife. At one point the husband was able to free himself, but McCloud stabbed him in the back below one shoulder.

Subsequently, the wife was allowed to leave the room, and she was able to get hold of the handgun they kept in the home. She fired one shot at McCloud, who may have been hit, and then she freed her injured husband, who took control of the gun and shot McCloud fatally. They then fled the house and got help. Responding police found McCloud lying dead in the bathtub.

Alan Gottlieb, chairman of the Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, is today calling the incident a textbook illustration of “the importance of having the will, and the tool, to fight back.” He co-authored “America Fights Back: Armed Self-Defense in a Violent Age.”

Gottlieb noted that the Vicksburg story provides a stark contrast to life in a state with rational gun laws with what happened last year in New Jersey. There, a woman named Carol Bowne was brutally murdered in her own driveway by a man against whom she had a protection order. She was stabbed to death less than 48 hours after she had gone to the Berlin Township police to find out why her application to simply buy a handgun had been stalled for weeks

“The importance of the right to keep and bear arms is never more decisively demonstrated than in a self-defense case like this,” he said in a news release. “They used a handgun to defend themselves and their child from a dangerous predator.

“This story puts the lie to arguments by anti-gunners that guns should not be kept in homes with young children,” he added. “The presence of a handgun in that Vicksburg home kept this family alive. A tragedy was averted because a family had a gun and used it.”



Image







http://www.examiner.com/article/ccrkba- ... s-the-home

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by williatw »

ladajo wrote: I too prefer my .45, and in an assessed difference with the above gentleman, my service ammo would have more than likely left the "stomach wound" guy critical or dead and the shoulder guy serious or critical after large chunks of body mass were removed/jellified. Meh.
Under Ohio law I have been told that you say afterward that you shot to end the threat; that is to protect your own life (or another) from death or serious bodily injury. Once the threat is clearly over you had better stop shooting. Of course I am speaking as an ordinary citizen and a minority one at that. If one is a LEO the rules in practice (if not in theory) are probably quite different; one can get away with allot more most likely even if said LEO is off duty at the time. I use as my CCW weapon a Glock 26, loaded with Cor-bon 9-mm 115 grain +P hollow point ammunition with a 12 round magazine. Sufficient rounds to handle hopefully the two assailants in this case even if I shot both more than once; though we don't know in the above case how many times he discharged his weapon, only that each attacker was hit once.

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by williatw »

St. Paul Man Assaulted; Wife Scares Off Attackers With Gun


Image

He was attacked by a group of young men who were gambling on his driveway, blocking his access as he returned home from work.
What they didn’t know: Chang’s wife was armed, and nearby.

ST. PAUL, Minn. (WCCO) — Residents on the east side of St. Paul say they’re fed up with crime and they point to Monday’s assault of a neighbor as the last straw.

The neighbor, 32-year-old Bruce Chang, bears the ugly facial wounds that nearly cost him his left eye. He was attacked by a group of young men who were gambling on his driveway, blocking his access as he returned home from work.

What they didn’t know: Chang’s wife was armed, and nearby.

A couple years ago Chang obtained a firearms permit for self-protection. He said he’d had enough of the petty crime frightening families in his neighborhood. But on Monday evening, he found himself on the receiving end.

“I didn’t know I was stabbed but I felt the pressure and fell to one knee,” he said. “I immediately pushed off, because you got to survive.”

He was assaulted by a mob of 15 to 30 young men gambling on his driveway. They threw rocks and jabbed a stick at his face, striking him just below his left eye.
With one of my older neighbors, who knows what would have happened,” Chang said.

Chang’s wife also has a firearm-carry permit. Because he can’t take his pistol to his workplace, Chang didn’t have it Monday when he pulled into his driveway.

“I’m also thinking that might be a deterrent factor, because my wife was able to come out of the house with her piece,” he said

That’s when his attackers ran off. Though he was bleeding and badly injured, Chang snapped a picture as several drove off in a burgundy Saturn sedan.

Neighbors blame troublemakers from a nearby park and community center, adding that police can only do so much to deter the crime. Gary Worden has lived in the neighborhood for 25 years.

“They can patrol but they can only react,” he said. “I’ve called a million times over I don’t know how many years.”

Chang says he’s glad he stood up to the mob, defending the right to live and not be trapped by fear.

“I just want to let people know you should feel safe coming out of your own home,” he said.


http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/03/0 ... sault-gun/

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by Diogenes »

Never mind. Story was too good to be true. Probably a fake.



http://news4ktla.com/woman-slices-off-r ... -gunpoint/
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by williatw »

Diogenes wrote:Never mind. Story was too good to be true. Probably a fake.
Well cheer up here is one that's almost as good:




Hero woman shoots her stalker in the throat after desperate chase through mall that began when he started following her in food court

Kentucky woman shot her would-be attacker after he tried to rob her
John Ganobick was caught on surveillance cameras stalking the woman
He followed her into an elevator and attacked her in a parking garage
Ganobick got into her car and pulled out a knife and she pulled out a gun and shot him in the neck and buttocks
He was charged with attempted murder, kidnapping and criminal mischief


Image
John Ganobick (pictured) was shot in the neck after he attempted to rob a woman in Louisville
A Kentucky woman heroically turned the tables on the man who was trying to rob her at knifepoint by shooting him in the neck and buttocks with her own gun..
The unidentified woman was being stalked by John Ganobick on the night of January 26 when he followed her into a shopping mall elevator to the parking lot.
Exiting the elevator with her, he gave chase when she ran to her car and tried to beat her - leaving his victim fearing she would be raped.

But he quickly found himself on the receiving end of some rough justice when she pulled her Beretta gun from her handbag and opened fire.

Surveillance cameras played in court this week from the Fourth Street Live food court show the chilling moment when Ganobick began to follow the woman.

She told Louisville Metro Police she sensed instantly that she was being stalked.

'The victim asked the suspect what floor he needed, and the victim described the suspect as being out of it, possibly high or drunk, but when he said the sixth floor, the victim stated she became nervous,' states the police report read out in court.

Appearing in court sporting a breathing tube that is a reminder of his injuries after the attempted attack, Ganobick has been charged with attempted murder, robbery and kidnapping.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... point.html

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by Diogenes »

Road rage incident leads to chain saw threat


Image

The other driver then proceeded to show Salafia his legally-owned handgun in an effort to stop Salafia's advance.

Salafia left.

http://www.kxxv.com/story/32100472/road ... saw-threat
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by paperburn1 »

http://5newsonline.com/2016/06/08/ohp-u ... -accounts/ :( :( :
(The process of seizing money electronically works similar to civil asset forfeiture, where police can seize property or cash if they believe it is connected to a crime. They can do this without a warrant or arrest, and they don’t have to prove a crime was committed first.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

hanelyp
Posts: 2261
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by hanelyp »

No warrant? Then the cop isn't going to see my bank card, or anything else in my wallet beyond my ID. This whole bit of having to prove you obtained the property legally to get it back from a seizure is backwards from the US constitution.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by williatw »

hanelyp wrote: This whole bit of having to prove you obtained the property legally to get it back from a seizure is backwards from the US constitution.
Thank some people's here beloved WOD for that. Civil Asset Forfeiture that is taking people's stuff without due process violates two separate amendments to the US Constitution and yet continues apiece in ever increasing amounts. It is not just the 2nd Amendment being threatened by the guv it is basically all of them (eventually) if not the integrity of the supremacy of the Constitution itself.
williatw wrote:This is the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution from Wikipedia:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Ame ... ution#Text

And from the 14th Amendment:
Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:
[N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_Process_Clause

I would welcome anyone here to explain to me how Civil Asset Forfeiture depriving someone of their property without charge, trial, conviction could possibly be "due process of law" and therefore Constitutional?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_for ... ted_States
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3484&p=122704&hilit ... re#p122704

hanelyp
Posts: 2261
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by hanelyp »

williatw wrote:
hanelyp wrote: This whole bit of having to prove you obtained the property legally to get it back from a seizure is backwards from the US constitution.
Thank some people's here beloved WOD for that.
I blame general decay of respect for rule of law and the Constitution. The same decay responsible for other forms of theft under color of law running rampant. When so much of government revolves around steeling from some to benefit others, it's no wonder a similar abuse is conducted under the umbrella of WOD.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by Diogenes »

hanelyp wrote:
williatw wrote:
hanelyp wrote: This whole bit of having to prove you obtained the property legally to get it back from a seizure is backwards from the US constitution.
Thank some people's here beloved WOD for that.
I blame general decay of respect for rule of law and the Constitution. The same decay responsible for other forms of theft under color of law running rampant. When so much of government revolves around steeling from some to benefit others, it's no wonder a similar abuse is conducted under the umbrella of WOD.

Well put. Overreaching and abusive government is a problem all across the spectrum, yet some people only insist on seeing it when it comes to their pet vice.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by Diogenes »

Image
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

williatw
Posts: 1912
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Post by williatw »

What to do After a Self Defense Shooting

What should you say, or what should you NOT say if you’re involved in a shooting? Massad Ayoob shares the 5-points to cover when the police arrive.


http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/26/v ... -shooting/

Post Reply