Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

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williatw
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby williatw » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:49 pm

palladin9479 wrote:I like how Colorado is providing us so much concrete useful data on the effects of ending prohibition. I know we had the info from the 1920's era but that was a nation wide issue on multiple levels. Colorado gives us a much better localized experiment that we can compare and contrast with both itself and other nearby states. Ultimately, from a pragmatist point of view, I believe full decriminalization is a net positive for everyone involved. Government resources (tax dollars) not spent on enforcement can be better spent on rehabilitation and economic improvement. The legal sale itself turns a previous black economy into a white one where it can be regulated, taxed and most importantly produce capital gains that are reinvested into the economy into of into gangs and drug cartels. Then the third order social costs are reduced, less crime and other negative economic activities create a better market and better use of resources.


Wow more intelligent commentary, wouldn't disagree with any of it. But on a related subject its not just the 2nd Amendment that is under attack it is all of them.

This is the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution from Wikipedia:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Ame ... ution#Text

And from the 14th Amendment:

Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:
[N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law . .


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_Process_Clause


I would welcome anyone here to explain to me how Civil Asset Forfeiture depriving someone of their property without charge, trial, conviction could possibly be "due process of law" and therefore Constitutional?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_for ... ted_States

choff
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby choff » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:25 pm

Question:Both the U.S. and Rome are/were Republics, Caesar was known for his hair, Trump's also known for his hair. Caesar had difficulties with senators, some of the rival candidates for Trump are senators, history has a way of repeating. So, if you're in the Secret Service, sworn to protect both the POTUS and senators, what do you do if 50 of those senators pull knives and go for Trump?
CHoff

williatw
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby williatw » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:56 pm

Packing heat in Detroit: Motown residents answer police chief's call to arms


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Rick Ector, an NRA-certified firearms instructor and the blogger behind "LegallyArmedinDetroit.com," says business is booming.


Detroit resident Darrell Standberry doesn't navigate streets of the Motor City without his licensed handgun, and it already has saved his life once.

“I never leave home without my weapon,” he said. “You never know when or what you’ll encounter.”

It was 2011, when Standberry stopped at a gas station on Six Mile Road after attending his son’s football practice. After filling up the tank of his SUV, he left the car running and went inside to pay, only to spot a man jumping in behind the wheel.

“I went back over and told him to get out of my car," said Standberry, 46, aformer bar owner who is now a college student. "He told me to get the hell out of there and drove off.”


“I never leave home without my weapon. You never know when or what you’ll encounter.”

- Darrell Standberry



Standberry stood frozen as the bandit peeled away, but then felt his heart pound when the thief doubled back. His hand moved down to his hip and gripped a holstered, .45-caliber SIG Sauer as the man who had stolen his car bore down on him.

“I saw him pulling out his gun to shoot me,” Standberry recalled. “So I pulled my gun out and shot him.”

The shot went through the windshield and hit its target, a criminal with a long record who made a short-lived getaway before crashing into a tree and dying. Standberry’s claim of self-defense was never questioned by local cops.



In a city plagued by chronic unemployment and crime and guarded by a dwindling police force, residents of Detroit are increasingly taking protection of themselves, their families and property into their own hands. Those who do so responsibly have the blessing and backing of Detroit Police Chief James Craig.

“When you look at the city of Detroit, we’re kind of leading the way in terms of urban areas with law-abiding citizens carrying guns,” Craig said recently.

The chief's call to arms, which first came in December, 2013, has been answered by thousands of men and women tired of being victims and eager to reclaim their beleaguered city. In 2014, some new 1,169 handgun permits were issued, while 8,102 guns were registered with Detroit's police department - many to prior permit holders who bought new firearms. So for in 2015, nearly 500 permits have issued by the department and more than 5,000 guns have been registered.



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Darrell Standberry has had a carry permit since 2002. He used his hand gun to stop a car thief who attempted to kill him during a 2011 robbery in his native Detroit.




With a population of about 680,000, some 83 percent of which is African-American, Detroit's growing embrace of Second Amendment rights has a racial component that is not unique to the city. According to a recent survey from Pew Research Center, 54 percent of African-American residents nationwide now see legal gun ownership as more likely to protect people than to put their safety at risk. That figure was up from 29 percent two years ago.

“If anyone should have the right or need to carry a gun, it should be the African-American community,” Philip Smith, founder of the National African American Gun Association, told Reuters.





http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/21/pa ... l-to-arms/

palladin9479
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby palladin9479 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:18 am

I would welcome anyone here to explain to me how Civil Asset Forfeiture depriving someone of their property without charge, trial, conviction could possibly be "due process of law" and therefore Constitutional?


It's wrong as hell but because of the tricky wording involved it gets overlooked. They aren't seizing your assets they are seizing the properties assets. And since property doesn't have rights, there is no 5th amendment rights to violate.

Yes that's the logic that is used and it's crazy as frick. To get your property back you gotta get a lawyer and sue whichever entity stole it, this gets very expensive. Police came up with the novel idea of auctioning off these assets to make up for budget cuts, and since property doesn't have rights then it's not stealing.

Yes the police are stealing from Americans and nobody is doing anything about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... Shark_Fins

williatw
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby williatw » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:21 pm

Crime-plagued property owner kills intruder

Officers say case appears to be self defense.

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Dayton police are investigating a shooting reported in the 200 block of Richmond Avenue on Sept. 9


A Dayton woman targeted by criminals at least five times in 11 years fatally shot a man she said broke into her home Wednesday morning, the second intruder she has hit with gunfire in about two years.

The 46-year-old woman, who lives in the 200 block of Richmond Avenue, told officers the man smashed a window and entered the second floor of her Five Oaks neighborhood home. The woman’s brother said the intruder initially broke a first-floor window but could not get inside because of metal security bars installed after a burglary last month.


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Homicide detectives have responded to a shooting on Richmond Avenue in Dayton on Sept. 9





The same female victim, whose name police did not release, also shot and wounded a juvenile who kicked in her back door in June 2013, according to police reports and her brother, 54-year-old Efrim Goldsmith.

Dayton police said the initial evidence indicates the woman acted in self-defense.

The deceased was identified as 22-year-old DeBrandon Jurrod Dickerson, who is from Detroit, and who has only been in the Dayton area for about a week, officials said. Police said they do not believe Dickerson was acting alone.


All of the evidence from the investigation, including an autopsy and toxicology report on the deceased, will be presented to the prosecutor to decide whether the incident was a justifiable homicide or if criminal charges should be filed, said Dayton police Lt. Wendy Stiver.

“It’s extremely early in the investigation,” she said.

Ohio’s Castle Doctrine gives people the right to use lethal force to protect themselves or their home when threatened.

The law says residents do not have to retreat from a threat and can use deadly force in self-defense or the defense of another when they are in their homes, cars or vehicles of immediate family members.


At about 3:05 a.m. Wednesday, police dispatch received a call about a break-in.

The woman heard someone making noise outside and break a window, said Goldsmith. He said the suspect could not get inside because of metal security bars.

The man then climbed a porch pillar to the roof and broke a window on the second floor, he said.

Goldsmith said his sister hid in the bathroom but opened fire when the intruder came toward her.

The injured suspect fled out the window, jumped from the roof and ran down the street, leaving behind a trail of blood, Goldsmith said.

Dickerson was found dead nearby. The coroner ruled the cause of death was a gunshot wound to the chest.

Stiver said Dickerson came to the Dayton region recently, but his criminal record in Michigan shows he faced some misdemeanor larceny and theft charges.

She said Dickerson may have had an accomplice.

Goldsmith said his sister installed metal bars in all the first-floor windows after her home was burglarized last month.

On Aug. 25, the woman contacted police after someone pried open her rear kitchen window and disabled her alarm by knocking it off the wall, a police report states.

The thief or thieves stole a safe, 10 pairs of shoes and two flat-screen televisions, the report states.

Goldsmith said it’s possible that the dead suspect was responsible for the previous break-in.

“Like the detective said, it’s more than likely it’s the same person who broke in a week before,” Goldsmith said.

Goldsmith said his sister has a concealed carry permit and shot a young intruder during a break-in a couple of years ago.

On the evening of June 24, 2013, the woman told police she heard people knocking on her front and back door at the same time and looked out a window and saw two juveniles she did not recognize, a report states.

The teens then kicked in the back door, and she fired one shot from a .38 special Ruger, striking one intruder in the arm, the report states.

The juveniles fled but the injured one showed up at a local hospital in search of medical treatment. Police identified both suspects, who were charged with burglary.

Police reports show someone broke into her garage in 2008. In 2004, she contacted police after someone broke into her home and stole an array of electronics.

Goldsmith said his sister is upset about Wednesday’s events and disturbed that she was forced to take a life.

He hopes she will consider moving to a safer neighborhood.

“It’s just the neighborhood,” he said. “She’s glad to be alive … she’ll be all right.”






http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/n ... der/nnbpk/

MSimon
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby MSimon » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:56 pm

palladin9479 wrote:
Yes the police are stealing from Americans and nobody is doing anything about it.

They out do burglars.
http://rare.us/story/federal-agents-took-more-money-and-stuff-from-americans-in-2014-than-burglars-did/

In 2014, the federal government confiscated some $4.5 billion from Americans through civil asset forfeiture, according to a recent report from the Institute for Justice, a nonprofit libertarian law and research organization.

That’s a figure which has been growing rapidly in recent years—as recently as 2008 it was “just” $1.5 billion, and there’s compelling evidence that law enforcement agencies use this license to bolster their budgets in lean years.

In the words of one officer, civil asset forfeiture funds are “kind of like pennies from heaven. It gets you a toy or something that you need is the way that we typically look at it to be perfectly honest.”

That $4.5 billion figure is shocking on its own.

But it’s even more shocking when you put it in this perspective: in that same year, FBI records show burglars took only $3.9 billion from Americans.

So in 2014, the federal government took more money and stuff from Americans than actual burglars did.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

ladajo
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby ladajo » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:01 pm

And what about other crime taking from americans? Seems like burglary is but a piece of how criminals rip off citizens.
Another misguided propaganda headline that seeks non-thought on the part of the reader.

While Search and Seizure policies are an issue, this is an attempt to justify anarchy via propaganda. Why did it target Federal Law enforcement specifically, why did it isolate crime to just burglars, what is the data really based on, does the collected data have internal and external validity? Some many questions that the headline drafter does not want asked...
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Diogenes
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby Diogenes » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:30 pm

And it didn't take long to re-start the "War on Drugs" stuff.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

ladajo
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby ladajo » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:48 pm

The really crappy part was I had almost completed the withdrawal process.

Back to step one.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

MSimon
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby MSimon » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:14 pm

Diogenes wrote:And it didn't take long to re-start the "War on Drugs" stuff.


At least in this recent thread you are the first to bring it up. Is it an obsession of yours?

=====================

Well ladajo, getting the various governments to stop stealing from the American people will lead to anarchy. Really? Making such theft a line item in the police budget means the police are no longer under civilian control - at least in part.

In the past even Diogenes thought that such behavior on the part of our various governments/police was wrong.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

williatw
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby williatw » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:46 pm

Lanier, others urge civilians to sometimes confront active shooters

Image

D.C. Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier says victims should sometimes get involved in opposing terrorist attackers.

If you’re in a position to try and take the gunman down, to take the gunman out, it’s the best option for saving lives before police can get there.”

The chief, appearing on the Sunday “60 Minutes” CBS news show, noted that in many multiple shootings, most victims are killed within the first 10 minutes — at the Navy Yard shootings in 2013, 10 of the 12 victims were dead in fewer than six minutes. Lanier told correspondent Anderson Cooper that police simply can’t get to the scene in time to stop the initial and deadliest onslaught.

“Your options are run, hide or fight,” Lanier said on the nationally broadcast show. “I always say if you can get out, getting out’s your first option, your best option. If you’re in a position to try and take the gunman down, to take the gunman out, it’s the best option for saving lives before police can get there.”

While Lanier’s blunt words may strike some as revelatory, the advice was offered in 2013 in a video titled “Run, Hide, Fight,” from the Houston mayor’s Office of Public Safety and funded by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. It is posted on the FBI’s Internet site that also contains a detailed analysis of active shootings and how police confronted the gunmen.

But coming from the police chief of the nation’s capital, speaking on national television, the words have gained a wider audience. “For a major city police chief to say that is breaking new ground,” said Chuck Wexler, who runs the Police Executive Research Forum, a group that advises police departments across the country.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pu ... story.html

williatw
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby williatw » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:54 pm

Police: Robbery victim shoots, kills gunman, 16



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A robbery victim shot and killed a teen gunman who fired at him outside this Evanston home, police said



EVANSTON, OH (FOX19) -
Cincinnati police said a robbery victim fought back by shooting and killing his 16-year-old assailant late Thursday.

Officers responded to Jonathan Avenue near Fernside Place near Walnut Hills High School about 11:30 p.m. after receiving a report of a shooting, said Captain Russ Neville, the night chief.

When police arrived, they said they a preliminary investigation determined a teen gunman tried to rob one of two contractors rehabilitating a home when the contractor walked outside to retrieve equipment from a van. The contractor turned over his wallet.

The second contractor came to the front door and saw what was occurring, Neville said.

The gunman tried to rob him of his wallet, too, but the man - who has told police he has a permit to carry a concealed gun - pulled out his firearm.

The robbery suspect fired several shots at the man, but he returned fire, striking the suspect several times, according to Neville,

The suspect, Christopher Terrell, was pronounced dead at the scene. Police said they would not release his photo.

Detectives said they confirmed the contractor has a carry conceal permit. They questioned and released him overnight.

No charges were filed.

The Hamilton County Prosecutor's Office will review the case and have final say.


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Cincinnati police say a robbery victim fought back by shooting and killing his assailant late Thursday.


How can this be!? I thought we had it on the best of authority that CCW holders never used their guns successfully in self-defense.


http://www.fox19.com/story/30722489/pol ... ls-suspect

williatw
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby williatw » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:20 am

after san bernardino

Support for Assault Weapons Ban Reaches 20-Year Low

The New York Times report on its latest public opinion poll buried one of its most interesting findings: Support for one gun control measure has plummeted in the wake of the San Bernardino attacks. As Patrick Egan pointed out, just 44 percent of Americans now support an assault weapons ban, the lowest number in the 20 years that the NYT poll has asked the question. In 2011, 63 percent of Americans supported such a ban.
This isn’t the only trend that should give pause to politicians and commentators (like those who write the New York Times editorial page) who hoped that San Bernardino would finally prompt Americans to give up their gun obsession. Gun sales have reportedly soared in the wake of the tragedy, in part because of the outpouring of liberal demands for draconian gun restrictions.
Via Meadia doesn’t take any position as to whether an “assault weapons ban” (whatever that means) is good policy. But we do think that commentators who interpreted a jihadist attack as a gun control story were profoundly missing the point, and profoundly misinterpreting the American peoples’ historical relationship with the Second Amendment.
Since the founding, the right to bear arms has been understood by American Jacksonians not primarily as a practical tool for hunting and self-defense, but as a political safeguard against authoritarian movements that threaten American liberty. Almost two-thirds of Americans see gun rights as a protection against tyranny. The ISIS-inspired attacks in San Bernardino, therefore, cut to the core of what many Americans, rightly or wrongly, see as the overriding purpose of the Second Amendment. If gun control boosters were more in tune with the nation’s character, they would recognize that attacks by Islamic extremists are unlikely to win over many Americans to their cause.



http://www.the-american-interest.com/20 ... -year-low/



Image

http://www.azquotes.com/quote/655209

choff
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby choff » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:51 am

Exactly how would a government go about confiscating 400 million privately owned fire arms. Lets assume 1 in every 10,000 of those guns accidentally discharged killing a confiscator during the process. That would put a death toll with a fully compliant public at Vietnam war level.
CHoff

hanelyp
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Re: Crime and Punishment: Oklahoma (& Texas) style!

Postby hanelyp » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:17 am

choff wrote:Exactly how would a government go about confiscating 400 million privately owned fire arms. Lets assume 1 in every 10,000 of those guns accidentally discharged killing a confiscator during the process. That would put a death toll with a fully compliant public at Vietnam war level.

It wouldn't, at least not all at once. Which is why "gun control" efforts in the US are always incremental, removing selected firearms or groups of "undesirables". Or such measures as restricting ammunition.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.


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