These numbers are of course completely virtual. There are a lot of assumptions made there, that IMHO simply do not hold true at all.
Also, as I said, the revenue numbers of the media corporations do not paint the same picture.
Please defeat SOPA
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
How is it you know better than the US Chamber of Commerce? Lets see your study. And why would the precise numbers matter? It's a matter of record, a factual matter, that 21 million copies of Avatar alone, were downloaded illegally. How can you obfuscate the fact that online piracy is such a huge problem?
Again, lets see what study you have access to that somehow makes null and void the US Chamber of Commerce's findings.
Again, lets see what study you have access to that somehow makes null and void the US Chamber of Commerce's findings.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
I would have to look them up and I am too lazy. Either way, it is a logical fallacy to conclude that 21 million illegal downloads equal a loss of 21 million legal purchases. I do think that most people that downloaded it would not have paid for it anyway, or maybe they did both. Either way, the conclusions are not logical.How is it you know better than the US Chamber of Commerce? Lets see your study. And why would the precise numbers matter? It's a matter of record, a factual matter, that 21 million copies of Avatar alone, were downloaded illegally. How can you obfuscate the fact that online piracy is such a huge problem?
Again, lets see what study you have access to that somehow makes null and void the US Chamber of Commerce's findings.
Also, the big media corporations themselves are guilty of copy right violations all the time. They just get away with it, because they are big corporations.
Finally, the same corporations that have been complaining about the loss of money due to illegal downloads have made tons of profit from the same illegal downloads. I am pretty sure I have posted a video here somewhere that illustrated how that works, didnt I?
So I think that these numbers are complete BS made up by people that either dont know how the system works or that do know how the system works but have some sort of alterior motive.
And no, I am not condoning illegal downloads, not at all (as a software developer myself, I do suffer from pirating, but I would not blow it out of proportion). I am simply being objective here and I do know the big media corporations well enough to know what they are up to is no good.
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
Okay, so there isn't any evidence for your position. You're just sure you're correct because it has to be the evil empires that surround us are committed to mind control and turning us all into zombie-slaves.
Evidence, is simply not required when forming, holding or defending your world-view, and even the US Chamber of Commerce should be considered unreliable and fraudulent when they contradict your tin-foil hat beliefs.
Just wanted to be sure we'd all heard you straight.
I rest my case.
And finally to the point, you don't much care how many millions or billion of dollars are stollen from the US, do you? You're not an American, so your opinion of US losses and US law needs to be evaluated with this in mind.
Evidence, is simply not required when forming, holding or defending your world-view, and even the US Chamber of Commerce should be considered unreliable and fraudulent when they contradict your tin-foil hat beliefs.
Just wanted to be sure we'd all heard you straight.
I rest my case.
And finally to the point, you don't much care how many millions or billion of dollars are stollen from the US, do you? You're not an American, so your opinion of US losses and US law needs to be evaluated with this in mind.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
Coming in late with my $.02. Forgive me if I'm behind the arguments.
As an author, I've found my work on torrent bitstream sites, and I don't care for it. However, it has not cost me enough to count, since short fiction rarely resells these days. I can imagine some best-selling novelists I find in the same situation are pissed. I do respect IP rights. However, I only know I've been ripped off because I found it by accident using a search engine. If the search engine had blocked the site, I'd be no less ripped off but I'd have blinders on to the misdeed. I ain't Google's fault, any more than I'd blame a newspaper for reporting bad news. I'm glad these two bills are being taken down for more work.
The misinformation about these bills is appaling, though. I listen to WTOP, a DC all-news station that is usually pretty good. They had a discussion of SOPA and PIPA on Blackout Day. The people involved did correct themselves a time or two, but they were consistently saying SOPA was about "privacy" instead of piracy. The discussion of PIPA showed a gross misunderstanding ... one participant thought the IP meant Internet Protocol instead of Intellectual Property. How is the public supposed to know what foolishness they're objecting to if the news sources can't get it straight?
As an author, I've found my work on torrent bitstream sites, and I don't care for it. However, it has not cost me enough to count, since short fiction rarely resells these days. I can imagine some best-selling novelists I find in the same situation are pissed. I do respect IP rights. However, I only know I've been ripped off because I found it by accident using a search engine. If the search engine had blocked the site, I'd be no less ripped off but I'd have blinders on to the misdeed. I ain't Google's fault, any more than I'd blame a newspaper for reporting bad news. I'm glad these two bills are being taken down for more work.
The misinformation about these bills is appaling, though. I listen to WTOP, a DC all-news station that is usually pretty good. They had a discussion of SOPA and PIPA on Blackout Day. The people involved did correct themselves a time or two, but they were consistently saying SOPA was about "privacy" instead of piracy. The discussion of PIPA showed a gross misunderstanding ... one participant thought the IP meant Internet Protocol instead of Intellectual Property. How is the public supposed to know what foolishness they're objecting to if the news sources can't get it straight?
You are obviously incapable of reading, hu?
First of all, I did tell you that I am software developer myself, so internet piracy does affect me too.
Second, there is plenty of evidence of how the big media corporations manipulate the general public. The complete denial of the existance of the independent candidates for the upcoming presidential elections is already evidence enough for me. But that is not all. Just look at Rupert Murdoch, his wiretapping into government offices and how he is interacting with government leaders all the time. Why is he not in prison for the whole wiretapping thing yet?
Thirdly, you seemingly seem to think that the US is the only country affected by piracy, with your assumption above. What ridiculous way of thinking!
Fourthly, you have obviously not watched the video I posted earlier ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc ) that showed screencaps from various websites owned by large media corporations that were promoting tools mainly used for illegal downloads, even rating them regarding the availability of pirated music. I am sure that you are in total denial that the corporations made money from these websites and the downloads of said tools.
But then again, you are soooooooooo sure of your indoctrinated opinion to be true that you cant even for a moment think for yourself or accept evidence presented to you here.
As for evidence of record labels ripping off artists, there you go:
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/87340/cana ... ent-trial/
The defendants in this lawsuit were EMI, Sony Music, Universal Music, and Warner Music.
This article actually only tells part of the story. The artists were never even informed about the existance of the compilations and when they complained they had already been on the market for years. The excuse was the payments were "pending", ahhh sure...
If this was not Sony, EMI and co, they would be raided and their websites closed, their compilation CDs seized from the store shelves as evidence. None of that has happened. As someone who believes in equal rights for everyone, I do have to wonder about that. And stuff like this does make me quite upset.
5th, it is on public record that up to the point where there was already a major effort going in social media to make the public aware of SOPA and PIPA, the large media outlets have been completely quiet about these two laws, as they have been for the most part about the NDAA. Almost all the information the public got about these important laws has been via social media and online video sites. The very websites that the big media outlets will most likely attempt to shut down as soon as they get the power to do so.
First of all, I did tell you that I am software developer myself, so internet piracy does affect me too.
Second, there is plenty of evidence of how the big media corporations manipulate the general public. The complete denial of the existance of the independent candidates for the upcoming presidential elections is already evidence enough for me. But that is not all. Just look at Rupert Murdoch, his wiretapping into government offices and how he is interacting with government leaders all the time. Why is he not in prison for the whole wiretapping thing yet?
Thirdly, you seemingly seem to think that the US is the only country affected by piracy, with your assumption above. What ridiculous way of thinking!
Fourthly, you have obviously not watched the video I posted earlier ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc ) that showed screencaps from various websites owned by large media corporations that were promoting tools mainly used for illegal downloads, even rating them regarding the availability of pirated music. I am sure that you are in total denial that the corporations made money from these websites and the downloads of said tools.
But then again, you are soooooooooo sure of your indoctrinated opinion to be true that you cant even for a moment think for yourself or accept evidence presented to you here.
As for evidence of record labels ripping off artists, there you go:
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/87340/cana ... ent-trial/
The defendants in this lawsuit were EMI, Sony Music, Universal Music, and Warner Music.
This article actually only tells part of the story. The artists were never even informed about the existance of the compilations and when they complained they had already been on the market for years. The excuse was the payments were "pending", ahhh sure...
If this was not Sony, EMI and co, they would be raided and their websites closed, their compilation CDs seized from the store shelves as evidence. None of that has happened. As someone who believes in equal rights for everyone, I do have to wonder about that. And stuff like this does make me quite upset.
5th, it is on public record that up to the point where there was already a major effort going in social media to make the public aware of SOPA and PIPA, the large media outlets have been completely quiet about these two laws, as they have been for the most part about the NDAA. Almost all the information the public got about these important laws has been via social media and online video sites. The very websites that the big media outlets will most likely attempt to shut down as soon as they get the power to do so.
Oh and dont let me forget that just recently the superior court has allowed congress to recopyright media that has already been in the public domain. I am sure some big media corporations are somehow going to aquire these. What legal implications a decision like this will have is yet to be seen. I fear a lot of unnecessary lawsuits coming up over stuff that is all of a sudden not PD anymore. It is once again a completely ununderstandable decision that will, I am affraid, have dire consequences.
So far this century has been plagued the phenomenon that people make more money via lawsuits over old inventions and IP than by actually inventing something new. I think that this will severely limit innovation and progress. Because if you can milk the same old cow for all eternity, there is no need to invent something new, is there?
So far this century has been plagued the phenomenon that people make more money via lawsuits over old inventions and IP than by actually inventing something new. I think that this will severely limit innovation and progress. Because if you can milk the same old cow for all eternity, there is no need to invent something new, is there?
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
In the interests of full disclosure, I should own that although I am primarily a philosopher and technologist, I'm also an accomplished screenwriter. I won a Remi at Worldfest a few years ago, and though I've never tried to sell my writing, I do plan to make attempts toward this sometime in the future. So my concerns about online piracy have this small motivation--piracy may well affect me directly one day. IMHO, we'd all do well to adopt a self-concerned attitude here, just as we all have an interest in the rule of law, and safeguards to private property.Tom Ligon wrote: As an author, I've found my work on torrent bitstream sites, and I don't care for it.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
Ahh, now its all clear...In the interests of full disclosure, I should own that although I am primarily a philosopher and technologist, I'm also an accomplished screenwriter. I won a Remi at Worldfest a few years ago, and though I've never tried to sell my writing, I do plan to make attempts toward this sometime in the future.
Well the good news for you, GT, is:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/13/m ... mongering/
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/13/m ... mongering/
Oh and here is the same for the music industry:
http://grabstats.com/statcategorymain.asp?StatCatID=9
Happy about my numbers now.
Just some things that a google search brought up.
http://grabstats.com/statcategorymain.asp?StatCatID=9
Happy about my numbers now.
Just some things that a google search brought up.
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
Is it clear? Lets elucidate just to be sure.
Many hundreds of thousands of screenplays are written each year, and a hundred or two will get full-budget funding. Studio execs make all manner of mistakes as to what to fund and what to pass by to be sure, but take careful note of their task in this regard. For an average movie, a studio invests something on the order of $100 million. This is serious risk. They're looking for a large Return On Investment. Many times, a film does badly and the investors take a bath.
Each time every studio exec makes a decision about financing a film project, they're forced to recognize that online piracy is going to severely diminish their ROI, no matter how good the film actually is. In fact, the more successful the film, the more likely their ROI will be fractioned by thieves overseas--such as the case with Avatar. What this means is, fewer films get made, fewer people are employed, fewer pieces of work are distributed to the masses. It is specifically because piracy is the problem it is, that many people go unemployed.
So concerns about evil empires and disjointed complaints about how copyright shouldn't be granted, etc. are all really out-of-touch academic concerns bandied about by uneducated dolts. Copyright protection is a necessary part of life. People who don't understand this are too stupid to comment on the issue.
Many hundreds of thousands of screenplays are written each year, and a hundred or two will get full-budget funding. Studio execs make all manner of mistakes as to what to fund and what to pass by to be sure, but take careful note of their task in this regard. For an average movie, a studio invests something on the order of $100 million. This is serious risk. They're looking for a large Return On Investment. Many times, a film does badly and the investors take a bath.
Each time every studio exec makes a decision about financing a film project, they're forced to recognize that online piracy is going to severely diminish their ROI, no matter how good the film actually is. In fact, the more successful the film, the more likely their ROI will be fractioned by thieves overseas--such as the case with Avatar. What this means is, fewer films get made, fewer people are employed, fewer pieces of work are distributed to the masses. It is specifically because piracy is the problem it is, that many people go unemployed.
So concerns about evil empires and disjointed complaints about how copyright shouldn't be granted, etc. are all really out-of-touch academic concerns bandied about by uneducated dolts. Copyright protection is a necessary part of life. People who don't understand this are too stupid to comment on the issue.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
Ok, so you have completely ignored anything I wrote and said, right?
You wannabe screenwriter! I am actually one who is really concerned by piracy, not just a wannabe. I do actually have real numbers about how it affects ME. I am also a visual effects artist, an industry that gets abused the most and has seen the biggest reduction in salaries and is constantly challenged to work for less money. Yet you go arround parroting BS that you have been spoon fed by certain people with alterior motives, alls the while completely and utterly ignoring any evidence to the contrary that is presented to you.
You wannabe screenwriter! I am actually one who is really concerned by piracy, not just a wannabe. I do actually have real numbers about how it affects ME. I am also a visual effects artist, an industry that gets abused the most and has seen the biggest reduction in salaries and is constantly challenged to work for less money. Yet you go arround parroting BS that you have been spoon fed by certain people with alterior motives, alls the while completely and utterly ignoring any evidence to the contrary that is presented to you.
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GIThruster
- Posts: 4686
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm
Ahh, I see. So you wont accept any of the evidence that you asked for, even when it is presented to you on a silver platter, because you do not like the messenger. Your ad hominem attacks certainly did not go without notice. Either way, I think you have completely disqualified yourself with this last post.Yup. You already proved yourself one of those too stupid to speak to the issue.