Please defeat SOPA

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MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

A better bill
Coming soon to a Congress near you. Well it is. Isn't it?
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

MSimon wrote:
Skipjack wrote:
Like Government controlled healthcare.
Completely different starting situation there and completely different direction too. I dont think that this can be compared. So lets leave it out of this discussion, please.
And some day when the government needs the money for something other than your healthcare....
They'll follow any of the previous models?

1. Raise taxes
2. Push Bonds
3. or my favorite, pass a laws/bills giving them unprecedented spending powers.

When you're the Banker in Monopoly, you control the money and how much there is and isn't, healthcare is running off the community chest.
Last edited by ScottL on Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

They would never bring a case against a private citizen for a single infraction. Any judge would just laugh at that and throw the case out, so why waste time with such ridiculous scenarios in defense of theft?
Yeah. The same thing was said about RICO.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

ScottL wrote:
MSimon wrote:
Skipjack wrote: Completely different starting situation there and completely different direction too. I dont think that this can be compared. So lets leave it out of this discussion, please.
And some day when the government needs the money for something other than your healthcare....
They'll follow any of the previous models?

1. Raise taxes
2. Push Bonds
3. or my favorite, pass a laws/bills giving them unprecedented spending powers.

When you're the Banker in Monopoly, you control the money and how much there is and isn't, healthcare is running off the community chest.
And all this power protects your health care how? Government has no duty to provide anything. Unlike a private company with which you have a contract.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

MSimon wrote:
ScottL wrote:
MSimon wrote: And some day when the government needs the money for something other than your healthcare....
They'll follow any of the previous models?

1. Raise taxes
2. Push Bonds
3. or my favorite, pass a laws/bills giving them unprecedented spending powers.

When you're the Banker in Monopoly, you control the money and how much there is and isn't, healthcare is running off the community chest.
And all this power protects your health care how? Government has no duty to provide anything. Unlike a private company with which you have a contract.
I didn't say anything about perpetual protection, just what it is as it appears. As for your private insurance, a lot of good a contract holds if one of the parties of the contract dies due to negligence of the other party. Contracts outside of life/death are a different story.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

I'm assuming the nature of this site virtually ensures we're all intelligent rational individuals
Uh. No. It merely improves the odds. And then it depends on the subject.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

I didn't say anything about perpetual protection, just what it is as it appears. As for your private insurance, a lot of good a contract holds if one of the parties of the contract dies due to negligence of the other party. Contracts outside of life/death are a different story.
Well nothing is certain in this life. But I still think a contract from a company is worth more than a promise from government. Generally. What happens when the group you belong to becomes inconvenient to government?

In America it would probably be people with AIDS. Or PTSD. Esp. PTSD. If you got it in the military - well that is honorable. If your step-father molested you? Things are tough all over. Besides there is no known cure - except time. For some a decade or two is enough. For others a lifetime is not enough.

I'm sure you have your prejudices in Europe as well.

With the whole world in financial collapse it would be wise to think of these things. The debts will either be repudiated or inflated away.

BTW I don't understand your distrust of business. You are in business. Insurance is full of moral hazard on all sides. More so when government runs it because you add in political hazard. Why are insurance companies any more prone to chisel than you are?

Here are some stats that might interest you:

Fraud against gov. medical programs: 30%
Fraud against private medical programs: 1%
Medical insurance company gross profits: 30%

So basically the insurance companies make their money by fighting fraud. A net benefit to the economy. Do they get overzealous? No doubt. Or you can have a medical community known for its corruption.

So where are medical costs coming down? Elective surgery. Stuff you have to pay for out of pocket. Big clue there.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

"Just to be clear: in a world were there are no copyright protections, there is no music, no movies, no games, no creation outside the sciences. If people cannot protect their intellectual property, they cannot earn a living creating it."
You must not have heard of the Grateful Dead - who - at their concerts provided an audio feed for those who wanted to tape them from the stage mics. Of course the audience was free to tape from where they sat or stood or danced. No problem.

So. You can't make money from recorded music. There are concerts. T-Shirts. Bling with the band logo. etc. Mixed drinks for Jimmy Buffett. Pill bottles for Airplane fans. Ask Alice.

The band can license its music for Muzak. Or commercials.

How did the music industry prosper before recorded music? Different business model. They can find a new one. Again.

Remember when free music on the radio was supposed to kill the music business? You can look it up.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Fraud against gov. medical programs: 30%
Fraud against private medical programs: 1%
Medical insurance company gross profits: 30%
Private insurance companies using phony reasons to get out of paying for your treatment: All of them
Government insurance using phony reasons to get out of paying for your treatmtn: 0
Families broke due to having to pay for medical treatments in countries with government healthcare: 0
Families broke in the US? Was it every 5. or so?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

And then there is social utility. No one cares if I listen to Lou Reed albums. But tell those interested that I saw the Velvet Underground live on the same bill as the Grateful Dead at Winterland and I get a big "Wow".
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Government insurance using phony reasons to get out of paying for your treatmtn: 0 - That explains the fraud.

Families broke due to having to pay for medical treatments in countries with government healthcare: 0 - countries going broke from medical expenses all of them.

===

The promises can not be kept. So they won't be. Demographics. If there are not enough prospering young the promises can not be kept. Europe is especially bad off in that respect.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

countries going broke from medical expenses all of them.
Uhm no ours isnt. What is costing us dearly here is the pension fund which is run by the same government insurance system. The cost for health insurance has only increased moderately since its inception. We have not been doing that since only yesterday, you know.
Anyway, health insurance and pensions, though run by the same system, are charged separately. I can see it on my bills. The cost has increased, but moderately. Most of the cost increase was due to the many immigrants that come here to get free treatments without ever having paid into the system. That is bad, but it is not killing the system. Plus, if our left was not totally stupid, we could solve that problem in a heartbeat. Maybe when the next elections bring the right to the helm, the issue will be gone.
Of course in that case, the leftists in the EU and also the US will have reason to be oh so concerned about this... Only hat people here really dont give a darn anymore.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Plus, if our left was not totally stupid,
Maybe on another planet in a galaxy far, far away. As long as there is a strong left in a country I suggest fewer government services.

And so what happens when medical money is used to pay the pensioners?

Moral hazard. Delayed and writ very large.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

hanelyp
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Post by hanelyp »

Skipjack wrote:I would not be surprised if just in time for the elections, they would proceed to shut down twitter, facebook and youtube. So the only source of information will be the traditional media outlets. They can then proceed to control what they feed us heavily edited presidential discussions included.
They'd be first order fools to do a wholesale shutdown of major sites. I'd be more concerned with orders to shut down selected opposition accounts on those services, achieving the same censorship with less outcry. But even that might trigger a stronger response than the censors can handle.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

D,

I don't know what came over me but you got a H/T:

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/01/the-public-domain/
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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