Please defeat SOPA

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:10 am

Jccarlton wrote: I have a hard time undertanding why you can't seem to understand that the issue here is not protection of IP, its DUE PROCESS and the 1'st, 4th and 5th ammendments of the Constitution Of the United States which you deem perfectly useful as toilet paper. If the stupid "FBI" notice I see at the beginning of each DVD I watch threateing me with heavy fines and jail time if I should do anything with MY DVD that the MPAA does not apporve of there are more than enough laws protecting IP already. The creative indutries may be entitled to creative protections, but they are not entitled to take away my right to due process simply because they are bunch of control freaks.

You have a hard time understanding because you obviously came into this discussion late and didn't bother to read it. It was in fact MYSELF who identified the ex parte/due process issue as the significant lone objection I have to the bill, and it is because of the ex parte issue that I'm on record as not supportive of SOPA as written. So when you say you have a hard time understanding why I don't understand, seems pretty plain your ignorance is your own fault.

Likewise with the fact you don't understand that SOPA is not a law that affects persons like yourself, so your melodrama is so not warranted. It does not affect web sites in the US, and it does not affect innocent people. It affects pirating websites--the places that freely distribute protected IP in a direct challenge to the rule of law. It is a means of remedy for those criminal activities, and whining about your personal rights just shows you don't have a clue what it is you're whining about.

kcdodd · Post by **kcdodd** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:41 am

Ah yes, it only affects the evil pirates "out there". Clearly the DoJ has more then enough power as can be seen by their recent actions worldwide.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:34 am

http://accordingtohoyt.com/2012/01/18/t ... -has-come/

An independent author says SOPA PIPA will destroy her business.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:36 am

Well I'm not sure what you're referring to, but obviously DoJ doesn't currently have the power to stop megauploads from distributing hundreds of millions of copies of copyrighted material each year. That's why US Chamber of Commerce says this affects 19 million Americans.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:41 am

GIThruster wrote:No offense, but this above is another example of what I've been saying over and over. Rather than look at the issue of internet theft, what this post does from start to finish is justify thievery. "It's okay to steal because. . ."

Well, fact is it's not okay. Your point is irrelevant. If you want to pursue legislature to remedy what you believe is this terrible evil in the world, then pursue it, but your observations even if granted as factual, do not justify theft, nor speak to the SOPA issue in any way.

Let me see. The entertainment industry made the same argument about radio, the VCR, the cassette recorder, etc.

And eventually they developed business models that allowed them to profit from the new technology. After considerable wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The problem is not theft. It is a business model that is not adapted to current technological realities. Tough for them.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:51 am

Likewise with the fact you don't understand that SOPA is not a law that affects persons like yourself

That is always the cover.

Now explain SWAT raids to collect student loans. I thought SWAT raids were only for hostage situations and dope dealers.

And you know these dynamic entry raids are not so popular among police anymore. Because the dope dealers have no way to tell if it is a robbery or really the police and they are shooting first. And police are getting killed.

And you are aware that copyright is not generally considered a natural right. It is supposed to be a way to encourage production of technical works and works of art. But SOPA/PIPA is designed to shut down independent production. See:

http://accordingtohoyt.com/2012/01/18/t ... -has-come/

Maybe copyright has outlived its usefulness.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:07 am

And BTW GTI your legislature has been bought and paid for on the matter:

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/01/you- ... bought-it/

Unfortunately they are not honest crooks. They didn't stay bought. Dang.

What you are not getting is that we are living in the end days of the Republic. Everything is for sale. Especially the legislature. Which reminds me of an old warning I have posted many times:

"The Latin American drug cartels have stretched their tentacles much deeper into our lives than most people believe. It's possible they are calling the shots at all levels of government." - William Colby, former CIA Director, 1995

Why should the entertainment industry be any different?

One thought does comfort me though. We ARE getting the government we deserve. Good and hard.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:16 am

MSimon wrote: Now explain SWAT raids to collect student loans. I thought SWAT raids were only for hostage situations and dope dealers.

Sure. The SWAT raid you're referring to had nothing to do with a student loan. That was a bogus report. The SWAT team was sent in relation to a criminal investigation.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/06/08/dept- ... at-team-up

It's just the shabby nonsense on the web that keeps perpetuating this myth. That, and that people are stupid enough to believe such things without checking--same kinda thing we're seeing here in this thread with all the nonsense and pure fabrication related to these bills.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:04 am

If 21 million people downloaded "Avatar" and sat through the whole thing, James Cameron should send them all checks for their time watching that turkey.

Exactly my thinking! Without the 3D- thing, Avatar would have tanked theaters and in blue ray sales.

Or that many of the people who downloaded it did not subsequently purchase the Blue Ray or DVD. In my experience the claims of vast sums of virtual revenues lost are outrageously exaggerated.

Absolutely think so as well.
The numbers fail because:
A) not everyone who downloaded it would have spent the money on it to watch it legally had it not been available for download.
B) I guess that quite a few went and bought the DVD/Blue Ray subsequently anyway.

I also want to say that I think the internet is hurting movie sales in the way that people now have a means to inform themselves about a movie before they buy their tickets/DVDs via online reviews. There is huge number of movies that I skipped because I read the reviews and synopsis and felt that the story was total crap.
I am just wondering when the media corporations will try to ban these reviews, because of some phony copy right violation claim...
I can totally see them take down the popular websites with movie reviews on them, should SOPA and PIPA pass, probably always arround the time a major "blockbuster" is released. So that people cant inform themselves and have to rely on the commercials like it used to be...

Finally, lets not forget that the big media corporations have made 100s of millions of the tools for these illegal downloads, as GT would know, had he watched the video I posted.

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:21 am

Skipjack wrote:GT, just because you oppose certain laws, does not automatically mean that you condone stealing. I think you are leaping to false conclusions here.

His arguments are philosophy, not pragmatism.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:03 pm

The issue of thousands or tens of thousands of jobs in the film industry is not ivory tower philosophy, and the idea that the law needs to protect everyone, no matter how people may envy them or accuse them without evidence, is what our society is based upon.

When people offer these strained arguments that its okay to steal from the studios because_________________, they are in fact arguing that law is for me, but not for you. Justice is for me, but not for you. Private property ownership is for me, not for you. It's okay to steal from James Cameron because I didn't like his movie.

The notion that the law is for everyone, is highly pragmatic. All law is in some way restraining people from pursuing what they perceive as their self-interest, in order to secure a greater equity for everyone. It is not just to steal a copy of the latest Hollywood blockbuster so you can avoid paying to see it, and something needs to be done about this.

Honestly folks, take a step back and consider what you're arguing for. Comments about how Cameron should pay people to see his film paint a picture in the mind of a bunch of hyenas, justifying to themselves their killing as they circle their prey; certainly not a group of well educated folk considering a criminal remedy. Still worse, when folk stubbornly refuse to admit there's a crime here and call it a broken business model. . .

Makes y'all sound batty as hell.

TDPerk · Post by **TDPerk** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:33 pm

What's batty as hell is the notion it's ok for the government to give the power to shut down websites without any wrong-doing being proven, and also thereby taking the use of non-infringing persons content from them.

And yes, if that's what IP protection requires, I'd rather do without IP.

The one is more important than the other.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:46 pm

TDPerk wrote:What's batty as hell is the notion it's ok for the government to give the power to shut down websites without any wrong-doing being proven, and also thereby taking the use of non-infringing persons content from them.

Why is that batty? The government shuts down beaches without a debate. The proper authority makes a call and we all live with it. No one goes to prison, but your right to swim is cut short without a dialog, based upon what is perceived as a greater good--the security of all swimmers.

If a web site posts up access to a protected piece of IP, it deserves to be shut down. Doesn't matter what else good might be accessible through the site. If they're distributing copyrighted IP without a license to do so, they are violating federal and international law and deserve to be shut down ASAP.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:21 pm

The issue of thousands or tens of thousands of jobs in the film industry is not ivory tower philosophy, and the idea that the law needs to protect everyone, no matter how people may envy them or accuse them without evidence, is what our society is based upon.

Made up, phony numbers! Again, the same guys complaining about piracy have made hudreds of millions from it!

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:29 pm

If a web site posts up access to a protected piece of IP, it deserves to be shut down. Doesn't matter what else good might be accessible through the site. If they're distributing copyrighted IP without a license to do so, they are violating federal and international law and deserve to be shut down ASAP.

So you think that Youtube, Twitter and Facebook should be taken down? Think of the tens of thousands of jobs that would be lost by that!
The world is grey and not black and white, dude.

Oh, I should also mention that the websites of several congressmen should be taken down as well. They were all using copyrighted materials, like photographs made by people that did not give them the license to use them. But then again, that would never happen, would it? Because private people are not big media corporations.