Please defeat SOPA

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ScottL
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:26 pm

Postby ScottL » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:03 am

GIThruster wrote:
Skipjack wrote:I also want to add that I find the current copyright law situation completely insane as well.

No surprise here. You want to be able to steal from IP holders.

If you have objections to IP law, then take IP law to task. Supporting theft of IP in spite of IP law just makes you out to be an outlaw.

It's because you have no regard for IP that everyone here ought to count your opines as vacant and self absorbed.


GTIThruster, You jump to conclusions quickly. You assumed I was against IP laws previously, which I'm not, just the wording of our current ones. Calm down. I know as a small time screenwriter you're worried, but I don't think you have a handle on the true impact. It's as though you just found out this is happening when its been happening for the better part of 20 years and is in decline in the U.S.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Postby Skipjack » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:22 pm

No surprise here. You want to be able to steal from IP holders.


I AM A FRACKING IP HOLDER MYSELF! HOW OFTEN DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT!

Helius
Posts: 465
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Location: Syracuse, New York

You're a Gangsa Thursta.

Postby Helius » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:23 pm

Thruster could lift someone else's creative work, cover it as his own, then rent seek to protect it. Scroll down to "copyright status" on this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboat_Willie It was all lifted from a Buster Keaton film "Steamboat Bill" that came out the same year. They didn't even credit their sources. Then there was many years of Rent seeking (thieving) to protect the IP Booty, despite the destruction to the body of the public domain. Now they want more. Mr. Thruster has a really convoluted perspective on whom is doing the thieving.

I could agree with SOPA and PIPA if they were provisioned to re-establish the public domain, and protect free expression. They are, however, nothing more than rent seeking provisions that allow large media companies to establish revenue streams at further detriment to the Public Domain and free artistic expression.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Postby Skipjack » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:27 pm

I think that copyright laws need to be completely changed to be in line with patent laws in regards to timeframes.
E.g. I find it absolutely ridiculous that someone went and bought the copyright to the Kookaburra song with the sole purpose of suing the Men at Work for copyright infringement, as they used the tune to this song that was more or a less an Australian national hymn as a theme in their "Land down under". One has to understand that the original author of the song never had a problem with that. Under the type of copyright laws that I envision the song would have been in the public domain for a long time by then (it was written in 1934). The current laws give way to what I call "copyright trolling" which is simillar to "patent trolling", but even more viscious as copyrights are much broader and up to the interpretation by judges (that quite often are bought).
Also interesting is that millions of children have learned that song at school. My wife did. Are they all criminals now? Should they be sued of an 80 year old song?
It is ridiculous!

GIThruster
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: You're a Gangsa Thursta.

Postby GIThruster » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:21 am

Helius wrote:Mr. Thruster has a really convoluted perspective on whom is doing the thieving.

I have a convoluted perspective? Do you suppose there are 21 million people making illegal downloads of Steamboat Willy?

Seriously, get some balance.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Jccarlton
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Location: Southern Ct

Postby Jccarlton » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:34 am

It's impossible to illegally download Steamboat Willie. It's in the public domain.:
http://video.web.de/watch/303942/Steamboat_Willie
Thruster, your constant cries of "THIEF!!!" might resonate if their weren't two well known facts about the industries involved. One is that publishers, movie studios, and record companes are are bunch of crooks themselves, who will, for the most part do anything in their power to cheat the creative types of the royalties due them. Two, that the media types are a bunch of control freaks cannot abide the fact that their customers might read, view or listen to something on a way that they do not control. In general the companies that distribute creative work are the worst in how they treat their customers. They are stuck on being the gatekeepers at any cost. They seem to think you can sell something and own it too. They are stuck on rental in a buy world.
Consider Disney's movie, "Song of The South." Disney will not release it to video for political reasons and so the only way I, as a potential customer will ever get to see it is if somebody has a print, scans it puts a torrent up. Disney itself will not release the movie, but they will insist that if anyone else does the they will be "stealing." Even though Disney derives no commercial from the movie. Frankly if your IP is taken out of print and out of distribution then the you as the IP owner can't cry foul simply because somebody else sees an opportunity that you did not pursue. You are afraid of internet uploading, upload it yourself. People in some parts of the world bootlegging your stuff, get there first. And whatever you do, don't try to take away my right to due process and information flow simply because you can't face the fact that your business model is obsolete.

Jccarlton
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Location: Southern Ct

Postby Jccarlton » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:38 am

Jccarlton wrote:It's impossible to illegally download Steamboat Willie. It's in the public domain.:
http://video.web.de/watch/303942/Steamboat_Willie
Thruster, your constant cries of "THIEF!!!" might resonate if their weren't two well known facts about the industries involved. One is that publishers, movie studios, and record companes are are bunch of crooks themselves, who will, for the most part do anything in their power to cheat the creative types of the royalties due them. Two, that the media types are a bunch of control freaks cannot abide the fact that their customers might read, view or listen to something on a way that they do not control. In general the companies that distribute creative work are the worst in how they treat their customers. They are stuck on being the gatekeepers at any cost. They seem to think you can sell something and own it too. They are stuck on rental in a buy world.
Consider Disney's movie, "Song of The South." Disney will not release it to video for political reasons and so the only way I, as a potential customer will ever get to see it is if somebody has a print, scans it puts a torrent up. Disney itself will not release the movie, but they will insist that if anyone else does the they will be "stealing." Even though Disney derives no commercial from the movie. Frankly if your IP is taken out of print and out of distribution then the you as the IP owner can't cry foul simply because somebody else sees an opportunity that you did not pursue. You are afraid of internet uploading, upload it yourself. People in some parts of the world bootlegging your stuff, get there first. And whatever you do, don't try to take away my right to due process and information flow simply because you can't face the fact that your business model is obsolete.

"song of the south":
http://songofthesouth.org/

GIThruster
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Postby GIThruster » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:41 am

No offense, but this above is another example of what I've been saying over and over. Rather than look at the issue of internet theft, what this post does from start to finish is justify thievery. "It's okay to steal because. . ."

Well, fact is it's not okay. Your point is irrelevant. If you want to pursue legislature to remedy what you believe is this terrible evil in the world, then pursue it, but your observations even if granted as factual, do not justify theft, nor speak to the SOPA issue in any way.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Postby Skipjack » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:53 am

GT, just because you oppose certain laws, does not automatically mean that you condone stealing. I think you are leaping to false conclusions here.

Jccarlton
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Location: Southern Ct

Postby Jccarlton » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:16 am

GIThruster wrote:No offense, but this above is another example of what I've been saying over and over. Rather than look at the issue of internet theft, what this post does from start to finish is justify thievery. "It's okay to steal because. . ."

Well, fact is it's not okay. Your point is irrelevant. If you want to pursue legislature to remedy what you believe is this terrible evil in the world, then pursue it, but your observations even if granted as factual, do not justify theft, nor speak to the SOPA issue in any way.

I wasn't justifying thievery, I was just pointing out the rather sordid history of the creative industries for decades. The problem is that because of that long history, they don't have a leg to stand on. The creative industries have spent so much effort screwing everybody in sight in public for so long that they simply have no real credibility. They can scream "THIEVES" as long as they want, but people look at the images of huge mansions and expensive cars, followed by the inumerable stories of creative types being screwed over and in the end most people will just shrug and and think "so what." Nobody cares when the crook gets robbed.
Don't you care how these people treat the people who actually create things? Trust me, if you seriously are going to want to deal with these people, you will. Do some digging and look at how many people have been screwed one way or another over the years and the lengths the companies go to not pay what they owe. You have to think that those companies are run by some really badly twisted people.
Frankly though, I would much rather that thievery happen and some guilty escape than our constitutional rights under the first, fourth and fifth amendments be denied so that a bunch of greedy, rent seeking idiots can continue to leach off the people who are their customers and suppliers. The threat to our constitutional rights trumps any desire by any special interst, no matter how justified or how much lobbying money they have. If these people have amply demonstrated how untrustworthy they are, why should I, for even a second, trust them with my fndamental rights, protected by the constitution.

Jccarlton
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Location: Southern Ct

Postby Jccarlton » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:23 am

If Chris Dodd wants something you know its not good for liberty:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201201 ... ught.shtml

GIThruster
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Postby GIThruster » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:23 am

Jccarlton wrote:Nobody cares when the crook gets robbed.

The fact that online piracy often involves crooks getting robbed, should not diminish the fact that a great many good and normal people get robbed too. James Cameron wrote, directed, produced and consequently bankrolled Avatar himself. Every one of those 21 million downloads were money direct out of his pocket, and much of that money could/would have been used to bankroll future employment of others.

Just how much piracy has to happen before we make laws to reflect the fact that music and movies deserve protection? For every "evil studio exec" you want to name and say we shouldn't feel for, I can name three decent people who deserve to be paid for their work.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Jccarlton
Posts: 1747
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Southern Ct

Postby Jccarlton » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:46 am

GIThruster wrote:
Jccarlton wrote:Nobody cares when the crook gets robbed.

The fact that online piracy often involves crooks getting robbed, should not diminish the fact that a great many good and normal people get robbed too. James Cameron wrote, directed, produced and consequently bankrolled Avatar himself. Every one of those 21 million downloads were money direct out of his pocket, and much of that money could/would have been used to bankroll future employment of others.

Just how much piracy has to happen before we make laws to reflect the fact that music and movies deserve protection? For every "evil studio exec" you want to name and say we shouldn't feel for, I can name three decent people who deserve to be paid for their work.

If 21 million people downloaded "Avatar" and sat through the whole thing, James Cameron should send them all checks for their time watching that turkey. How do you know that all those downloads were from places that "Avatar" was available for sale. Or that the people in question would be able to buy it even if it were available? Or that many of the people who downloaded it did not subsequently purchase the Blue Ray or DVD. In my experience the claims of vast sums of virtual revenues lost are outrageously exaggerated.
I have a hard time undertanding why you can't seem to understand that the issue here is not protection of IP, its DUE PROCESS and the 1'st, 4th and 5th ammendments of the Constitution Of the United States which you deem perfectly useful as toilet paper. If the stupid "FBI" notice I see at the beginning of each DVD I watch threateing me with heavy fines and jail time if I should do anything with MY DVD that the MPAA does not apporve of there are more than enough laws protecting IP already. The creative indutries may be entitled to creative protections, but they are not entitled to take away my right to due process simply because they are bunch of control freaks.

Jccarlton
Posts: 1747
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Southern Ct

Postby Jccarlton » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:03 am

Jccarlton wrote:It's impossible to illegally download Steamboat Willie. It's in the public domain.:
http://video.web.de/watch/303942/Steamboat_Willie
Thruster, your constant cries of "THIEF!!!" might resonate if their weren't two well known facts about the industries involved. One is that publishers, movie studios, and record companes are are bunch of crooks themselves, who will, for the most part do anything in their power to cheat the creative types of the royalties due them. Two, that the media types are a bunch of control freaks cannot abide the fact that their customers might read, view or listen to something on a way that they do not control. In general the companies that distribute creative work are the worst in how they treat their customers. They are stuck on being the gatekeepers at any cost. They seem to think you can sell something and own it too. They are stuck on rental in a buy world.
Consider Disney's movie, "Song of The South." Disney will not release it to video for political reasons and so the only way I, as a potential customer will ever get to see it is if somebody has a print, scans it puts a torrent up. Disney itself will not release the movie, but they will insist that if anyone else does the they will be "stealing." Even though Disney derives no commercial from the movie. Frankly if your IP is taken out of print and out of distribution then the you as the IP owner can't cry foul simply because somebody else sees an opportunity that you did not pursue. You are afraid of internet uploading, upload it yourself. People in some parts of the world bootlegging your stuff, get there first. And whatever you do, don't try to take away my right to due process and information flow simply because you can't face the fact that your business model is obsolete.

Steamboat Bill is also in the public domain:
http://www.archive.org/details/steamboat_bill_ipod

Jccarlton
Posts: 1747
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Southern Ct

Postby Jccarlton » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:13 am

GIThruster wrote:
Jccarlton wrote:Nobody cares when the crook gets robbed.

The fact that online piracy often involves crooks getting robbed, should not diminish the fact that a great many good and normal people get robbed too. James Cameron wrote, directed, produced and consequently bankrolled Avatar himself. Every one of those 21 million downloads were money direct out of his pocket, and much of that money could/would have been used to bankroll future employment of others.

Just how much piracy has to happen before we make laws to reflect the fact that music and movies deserve protection? For every "evil studio exec" you want to name and say we shouldn't feel for, I can name three decent people who deserve to be paid for their work.

For somebody who claims to want to be a screenwriter, you seem to have very little knowlege how the system is fixed. One piece of advice, always get cash up front and don't pay any attention to percentages of the "profits." And have an attorney read and validate the contract. Also don't deliver anything until the check clears the bank.


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