Look people, I don't really think there is any point in discussing this further in the absence of more information. I expect there will be another article eventually which describes the latest efforts to advance the purpose of the "B4U-ACT" group.
You all pooh pooh the notion that they will gain traction, but I have seen this game played out before. I hope I am wrong, and I hope you all are right, but that would be a discontinuity from the way things have worked out in the past. I think the only thing that will stop them is a socio/economic collapse, and I hope I am wrong about the probability of that happening as well.
Just keep in mind that you have been made aware of the efforts of this B4U-ACT group.
Evil? Now, perhaps. Later? Not so much.
But it is the artificial boundaries (laws) that determine what is legal. Till people recognize a universal rule of morality, what is or is not moral will be debated, and the laws will follow populism to some extent.KitemanSA wrote:No, but it does suggest that artificial boundaries (laws) confuse real ones (morality).Diogenes wrote: And this simply reinforces my point that such boundaries are artificial.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
I don't like the term "homophobe" and I don't like the term "pedophile". Neither term is accurate.
If a gay person were to call me a homophobe, my response would be, "Actually, I don't fear you." I might or might not say they disgust me, but that's not the same as fear. And I will live and let live.
By the Greek roots of the word, I'm a pedophile: I happen to like children ... the way we're supposed to. Nurturing, protective, appreciating all they can become. This is quite different from what someone who has sex with children loves.
There are three types of these people. The first does not understand that what they are doing hurts children, regardless of the excuse of consent. The people meeting to promote this behavior may fall into this category. Educate them, and help them control their urges by reminding them of consequences, both legal and in the harm to children.
The second does not care that what they are doing hurts children. Punish them if they falter.
The third, and worst, group does what they do because they want to hurt children. Lock these up and throw away the key. I might suggest hand-cuffing them to a pipe in the prison shower, nude.
Healthy people don't want to hurt children, and will not take any action toward children that causes them harm.
If a gay person were to call me a homophobe, my response would be, "Actually, I don't fear you." I might or might not say they disgust me, but that's not the same as fear. And I will live and let live.
By the Greek roots of the word, I'm a pedophile: I happen to like children ... the way we're supposed to. Nurturing, protective, appreciating all they can become. This is quite different from what someone who has sex with children loves.
There are three types of these people. The first does not understand that what they are doing hurts children, regardless of the excuse of consent. The people meeting to promote this behavior may fall into this category. Educate them, and help them control their urges by reminding them of consequences, both legal and in the harm to children.
The second does not care that what they are doing hurts children. Punish them if they falter.
The third, and worst, group does what they do because they want to hurt children. Lock these up and throw away the key. I might suggest hand-cuffing them to a pipe in the prison shower, nude.
Healthy people don't want to hurt children, and will not take any action toward children that causes them harm.
Diogenes, morality is what society makes of the ethics of the individuals living in it. Ethics are to a large extent genetic. The urge to protect our offspring is a genetic behaviour that is present in most people. Part of protetcting them is preventing them from getting raped, or coerced into sexual intercourse by some perverted bastard.
I think that it is save to assume that since the majority of people have this genetic behaviour, that they will not allow society to establish rules of morality that put this into danger.
I cant think of anyone, unless the person himself is a pedophile who would even consider changing this. In fact, I think that it would be political suicide for any politician to even touch this with a ten foot pole.
I think that it is save to assume that since the majority of people have this genetic behaviour, that they will not allow society to establish rules of morality that put this into danger.
I cant think of anyone, unless the person himself is a pedophile who would even consider changing this. In fact, I think that it would be political suicide for any politician to even touch this with a ten foot pole.
Are you not overlooking the very first post in this thread? The thread is ABOUT a group of academics that want to do exactly what you and others think is unthinkable.Skipjack wrote:Diogenes, morality is what society makes of the ethics of the individuals living in it. Ethics are to a large extent genetic. The urge to protect our offspring is a genetic behaviour that is present in most people. Part of protetcting them is preventing them from getting raped, or coerced into sexual intercourse by some perverted bastard.
I think that it is save to assume that since the majority of people have this genetic behaviour, that they will not allow society to establish rules of morality that put this into danger.
I cant think of anyone, unless the person himself is a pedophile who would even consider changing this. In fact, I think that it would be political suicide for any politician to even touch this with a ten foot pole.
The evidence is in front of you. I do not know how you can seemingly forget that it IS in front of you.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
Tom Ligon wrote:I don't like the term "homophobe" and I don't like the term "pedophile". Neither term is accurate.
If a gay person were to call me a homophobe, my response would be, "Actually, I don't fear you." I might or might not say they disgust me, but that's not the same as fear. And I will live and let live.
By the Greek roots of the word, I'm a pedophile: I happen to like children ... the way we're supposed to. Nurturing, protective, appreciating all they can become. This is quite different from what someone who has sex with children loves.
There are three types of these people. The first does not understand that what they are doing hurts children, regardless of the excuse of consent. The people meeting to promote this behavior may fall into this category. Educate them, and help them control their urges by reminding them of consequences, both legal and in the harm to children.
The second does not care that what they are doing hurts children. Punish them if they falter.
The third, and worst, group does what they do because they want to hurt children. Lock these up and throw away the key. I might suggest hand-cuffing them to a pipe in the prison shower, nude.
Healthy people don't want to hurt children, and will not take any action toward children that causes them harm.
Tom, I have been arguing social topics for years. In the process of arguing an issue, it is important to learn and understand your opponents arguments. These people do not believe that sex is harmful to children. I repeat, they simply do not believe it. Alfred Kinsey (the great guru of sexual science) has proclaimed that it is okay for children to have sex. He did a study to prove it! They will simply wave away your arguments that sex hurts children and suggest that any psychological effects are the result of society stigma, and not because of actual harm to the child.
They will argue that if you remove the illegality and the stigma, the children will be perfectly fine and indeed they will argue that it will probably make the children healthier!
(This is the exact thing they said regarding Homosexuals, who still commit suicide at far greater rates than average. So much for "stigma" being the only thing wrong with it. )
They are academics. They simply can't learn past their intellectual group think.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
They are a small group and I doubt that whatever they may say or think will have much of any effect. Look, there are plenty of nutbags in this world and academia is full of them also. None of this means that ever anything of what they are discussing will ever result in any laws being altered, etcThe thread is ABOUT a group of academics that want to do exactly what you and others think is unthinkable.
If I was a police department that was involved with prosecuting child molesters, I would definitely open a file on every single person that attended this conference, especially the speakers.
Skipjack wrote:
If I was a police department that was involved with prosecuting child molesters, I would definitely open a file on every single person that attended this conference, especially the speakers.
That is a chilling thought for many Americans, including this one. They may be nutbags and stupid, but unless they are known to be doing something illegal, I would rather put up with them then such an intrusive police system.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
— Lord Melbourne —
If no one can consent to anything then the government will need to be watching to make sure we only do what is allowed. That is the trouble with liberty. Some one somewhere might make a "bad" decision. We can't have that.Diogenes wrote:The concept of "consent" is a legal artifice. 50 years ago Homosexuals couldn't legally consent either.KitemanSA wrote:All these things MAY be true, but the difference between "homophiliacs" and "pedophiliacs" is that the homo type is only legal between consenting individuals, and with the pedo type, children by definition can't consent to sexual activity. Pedophilia MAY be "normal" but statutory rape is still rape.
Besides. Think of all the jobs that will be created for minders.
We can avoid learning from our mistakes because our betters in the legislature know what is good for us. They will have consulted the best experts money can buy.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
We can start with - no woman can consent to sex without prior government approval specifying the place, time, and allowed acts. With minders watching to make sure the rules are followed. The advantage is that if pregnancy should follow a responsible male will be positively identified.
OTOH I expect a sex underground would develop for those who want to be alone during the act. Who could enjoy such perversion? Or for those who want more than one watcher. Doubly (or more) perverse.
“Political tags–such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth–are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.” – Robert A. Heinlein
OTOH I expect a sex underground would develop for those who want to be alone during the act. Who could enjoy such perversion? Or for those who want more than one watcher. Doubly (or more) perverse.
“Political tags–such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth–are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.” – Robert A. Heinlein
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
I forgot to mention that at one time you could not consent to have sex with a black person. Too much race mixing is a really bad idea.
And the Islamics in some places don't allow non members to marry into the religion without conversion. And marry out of the religion? Don't even think about it.
Where will it all end? Badly to be sure.
Of course that brings up the opposite problem:
If you tell people what to do they will do the opposite. Otherwise they will do as they dam well please.
And the Islamics in some places don't allow non members to marry into the religion without conversion. And marry out of the religion? Don't even think about it.
Where will it all end? Badly to be sure.
Of course that brings up the opposite problem:
If you tell people what to do they will do the opposite. Otherwise they will do as they dam well please.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.