AcesHigh wrote:too many threads created by tea-partiers to bash the democrats here. I guess we need a thread making fun of Sarah Palin, the leader of the tea-partiers.
Thinking... remembering... wait for it... I got it... Nixon, right? So Nixon being a cheat/criminal/prick means what exactly about Carter?rjaypeters wrote:Too much integrity? To be the President of the United States? I thought integrity was a qualification. Naive me.seedload wrote:But, sadly, he was just not a very good president at all. Maybe too much integrity. Maybe too much intractable ideology in the face of too much opposition. I don't know. Probably the wrong ideology for the times. Just not the right man for the job, sorry.
Please remember who the previously elected President was before Carter. At least candidate Carter admitted his faults. Part of the reason President Carter was elected was to "restore honor to the Presidency." Where have I heard _that_ phrase before?
If you want to start a thread to bash Sarah Palin then go for it.AcesHigh wrote:too many threads created by tea-partiers to bash the democrats here. I guess we need a thread making fun of Sarah Palin, the leader of the tea-partiers.
Just that our country was looking for a change. Republican to Democrat, "Tricky Dick" to someone who most assuredly wasn't.seedload wrote:Thinking... remembering... wait for it... I got it... Nixon, right? So Nixon being a cheat/criminal/prick means what exactly about Carter?
Indeed. Ronald Reagan with all his virtues and faults had the advantage of succeeding Carter. One of Ronald Reagan's virtues illustrates the power of positive thinking*. Would Ronald Reagan had done as well if he had been elected instead of Carter? We will never know.seedload wrote:Whatever honor he "restored" didn't translate to national pride or productivity. It took another great man for that to happen.
My point was about the personal integrity of an individual, Jimmy Carter. Secret Service personnel, former diplomats and lots of other people who are indentified, or not, have their own agendas.seedload wrote:More concretely, Carter is pretty much universally excepted as not being a great president.
Fair enough on abort before start, but talking with guys who were invovled, they pretty much got what they asked for. They admit they did not get more (or ask hard) as they really did not have more to get at the time.Diogenes wrote:ladajo wrote:Budget cuts did not doom the rescue.
Lack of Joint Interoperability, lack of depth and redundancy in the plan, and going "a bridge to far" doomed the plan.
That was an extreme stretch of the string to pull off. And guess what, the string broke. Carter had nothing to do with it. They were already at abort criteria when the accident happened.
They were at abort criteria before they even attempted the plan. Carter refused to send the requisite quantity of resources to do the job because he wanted to keep our presence low. This is otherwise known as "pussyfooting" around.
ladajo wrote:Fair enough on abort before start, but talking with guys who were invovled, they pretty much got what they asked for. They admit they did not get more (or ask hard) as they really did not have more to get at the time.Diogenes wrote:ladajo wrote:Budget cuts did not doom the rescue.
Lack of Joint Interoperability, lack of depth and redundancy in the plan, and going "a bridge to far" doomed the plan.
That was an extreme stretch of the string to pull off. And guess what, the string broke. Carter had nothing to do with it. They were already at abort criteria when the accident happened.
They were at abort criteria before they even attempted the plan. Carter refused to send the requisite quantity of resources to do the job because he wanted to keep our presence low. This is otherwise known as "pussyfooting" around.
I fully agree it was thin going in on many levels.
I recall Carter taking the blame as well. However to be fair, he had asked what they needed, "they" (in a disjointed manner) told him, and he said do it. There were upfront limitations to the equipment used as well as the forces, and their ability to operate together. No real rehearsals, nothing like how we would plan and execute this sort of thing today. It was very adhoc, mostly as a result of trying to pull together the needed functional assets to pull it off.Diogenes wrote:ladajo wrote:Fair enough on abort before start, but talking with guys who were invovled, they pretty much got what they asked for. They admit they did not get more (or ask hard) as they really did not have more to get at the time.Diogenes wrote:
They were at abort criteria before they even attempted the plan. Carter refused to send the requisite quantity of resources to do the job because he wanted to keep our presence low. This is otherwise known as "pussyfooting" around.
I fully agree it was thin going in on many levels.
If you have direct information from people involved in the operation than your data is better than mine. I've spoken to people who were stationed in Iran and saw the great darkness coming, (They all blame Carter to a man.) but no one who was actually "In" Operation Eagle's claw. " (Of Which I know.)
I recall LIVING through the Carter era, and how disappointed I was in everything that occurred and how he responded to it. When the Iranians took our Hostages, many of us perceived that it was because Carter was such a weak milquetoast leader, and when the rescue mission disaster occurred, we also attributed that to Carter's fecklessness.
The word going round the base (Ft. Sill) was that Carter refused to provide enough men and equipment because he was concerned about the perception of other countries to a massive American military presence. In other words, he sent the bare minimum necessary to accomplish the mission if NOTHING went wrong.
I no longer recall the exact details of what went wrong first (I used to know this, but now I have to look it up) but the point was there was no margin for error. (I'm sorta remembering that one helicopter was taken out by sand, possibly in the gearbox.)
The point is, the entire mission failure was attributed to Carter's fecklessness, so either rightly or wrongly, Jimmy Carter was perceived as the main problem with everything going wrong for America at that time. (Carter even claimed responsibility. I'll give him that much.)
Carter was the Worst disaster of a President (Including John Kennedy) until the current sauropod in the Oval office.
Diogenes wrote:imaginatium wrote:Just about anyone in politics makes Jimmy Carter look good. Jimmy Carter is a man of great honesty, integrity, and compassion, and is one of the finest human beings I've had the privilege of knowing. It's not a persons politics that makes him great, it's his character.Jccarlton wrote:Obama is starting to make Jimmy Carter look good. Also Bernanke is an idiot:
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/02/ ... es_fortune
I went through this once in the '70s. I never thought that anybody would ever be so stupid to think that inflation is anything other than stone cold misery. I was wrong.
Being compared to Carter is a compliment. And Obama would be proud to be compared to Carter, whether he deserves it or not.
That is not what his Secret Service agents said about him. They said he was pompous, arrogant, condescending, deceitful and a real jerk to work for.
There is also an accusation that he attempted to force a Georgian Management company on the Shah of Iran, which the Shah rejected, resulting in the animosity between Jimmy and The Shah, resulting in Jimmy doing everything he could to undermine the Shah.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Jimmy's hapless dealings with the Shah, are responsible for the deaths of millions of people, and may likely be responsible for the deaths of millions more.
My friend, I think there is perhaps an entire world of Jimmy Carter ineptitude (at best) that would be opened up for you if you choose to explore it. Till Obama, he was the WORST PRESIDENT in History!
I know Officers which were stationed in Iran who curse his name to this very day.
I have never met Jimmy Carter, but I had to live with the consequences of his policies. In all too many places he had the incredible gift of always following the wrong path. This included his foreign policy, with the potentially disastrous ABM treaty and SALT treaties, the fall of the Shah and other Mideast policies and letting the Soviets run rampant all over Africa and South America. His domestic policies were just as bad, frequently being based on the crackpot ideas of the likes of Paul Erlich, Amory Lovins and other Club of Rome greenie end of the world crazies. His energy programs which left all too many if us in the cold were a hoot. You do know that it gets cold at night in New England. Then of course the wonderful financial policies with their hidden tax increases and the destruction of a lot of peoples savings. You add it all up and it's hard to find a President who's tenure is one that all too many of us wish we would not repeat.imaginatium wrote:Diogenes wrote:imaginatium wrote: Just about anyone in politics makes Jimmy Carter look good. Jimmy Carter is a man of great honesty, integrity, and compassion, and is one of the finest human beings I've had the privilege of knowing. It's not a persons politics that makes him great, it's his character.
Being compared to Carter is a compliment. And Obama would be proud to be compared to Carter, whether he deserves it or not.
That is not what his Secret Service agents said about him. They said he was pompous, arrogant, condescending, deceitful and a real jerk to work for.
There is also an accusation that he attempted to force a Georgian Management company on the Shah of Iran, which the Shah rejected, resulting in the animosity between Jimmy and The Shah, resulting in Jimmy doing everything he could to undermine the Shah.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Jimmy's hapless dealings with the Shah, are responsible for the deaths of millions of people, and may likely be responsible for the deaths of millions more.
My friend, I think there is perhaps an entire world of Jimmy Carter ineptitude (at best) that would be opened up for you if you choose to explore it. Till Obama, he was the WORST PRESIDENT in History!
I know Officers which were stationed in Iran who curse his name to this very day.
Just how many of those alleged secret service agent's do you personally know and have a friendship with? I don't need to rely on the dubious writing of right wing propagandists, to tell me about who Jimmy Carter is; I can rely on my own extensive personal experience with him. There is a whole world of Jimmy Carter compassion generosity and service, that would be opened to you if you choose to explore it.
Kessler, in my estimation have no credibility. Let me clue you in on something, that you are obviously oblivious to: anyone who consistently paints those who agree with his politics as saints, and those who disagree with his politics as despots, either has a completely distorted view of reality, or is an intentional liar pushing an agenda.
I've know many people, who fall all over the political, social, religious, and philosophical spectrum. And I can safely say that there is no correlation between ideology and character.
Can you really think Carter has EVER been the worst president in history??? Are you forgetting about such ignominies as Franklin Pierce, Warren G. Harding, James Buchanan, Lyndon B. Johnson, and George W. Bush ( just to name a few).
imaginatium wrote:Diogenes wrote:imaginatium wrote: Just about anyone in politics makes Jimmy Carter look good. Jimmy Carter is a man of great honesty, integrity, and compassion, and is one of the finest human beings I've had the privilege of knowing. It's not a persons politics that makes him great, it's his character.
Being compared to Carter is a compliment. And Obama would be proud to be compared to Carter, whether he deserves it or not.
That is not what his Secret Service agents said about him. They said he was pompous, arrogant, condescending, deceitful and a real jerk to work for.
There is also an accusation that he attempted to force a Georgian Management company on the Shah of Iran, which the Shah rejected, resulting in the animosity between Jimmy and The Shah, resulting in Jimmy doing everything he could to undermine the Shah.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Jimmy's hapless dealings with the Shah, are responsible for the deaths of millions of people, and may likely be responsible for the deaths of millions more.
My friend, I think there is perhaps an entire world of Jimmy Carter ineptitude (at best) that would be opened up for you if you choose to explore it. Till Obama, he was the WORST PRESIDENT in History!
I know Officers which were stationed in Iran who curse his name to this very day.
Just how many of those alleged secret service agent's do you personally know and have a friendship with? I don't need to rely on the dubious writing of right wing propagandists, to tell me about who Jimmy Carter is; I can rely on my own extensive personal experience with him. There is a whole world of Jimmy Carter compassion generosity and service, that would be opened to you if you choose to explore it.
Kessler, in my estimation have no credibility. Let me clue you in on something, that you are obviously oblivious to: anyone who consistently paints those who agree with his politics as saints, and those who disagree with his politics as despots, either has a completely distorted view of reality, or is an intentional liar pushing an agenda.
I've know many people, who fall all over the political, social, religious, and philosophical spectrum. And I can safely say that there is no correlation between ideology and character.
Can you really think Carter has EVER been the worst president in history??? Are you forgetting about such ignominies as Franklin Pierce, Warren G. Harding, James Buchanan, Lyndon B. Johnson, and George W. Bush ( just to name a few).
The presidency of George W Bush, has already resulted in MEGADEATHS, by his command, not just as a indirect consequence.Diogenes wrote:imaginatium wrote:Diogenes wrote:
That is not what his Secret Service agents said about him. They said he was pompous, arrogant, condescending, deceitful and a real jerk to work for.
There is also an accusation that he attempted to force a Georgian Management company on the Shah of Iran, which the Shah rejected, resulting in the animosity between Jimmy and The Shah, resulting in Jimmy doing everything he could to undermine the Shah.
I cannot emphasize this enough. Jimmy's hapless dealings with the Shah, are responsible for the deaths of millions of people, and may likely be responsible for the deaths of millions more.
My friend, I think there is perhaps an entire world of Jimmy Carter ineptitude (at best) that would be opened up for you if you choose to explore it. Till Obama, he was the WORST PRESIDENT in History!
I know Officers which were stationed in Iran who curse his name to this very day.
Just how many of those alleged secret service agent's do you personally know and have a friendship with? I don't need to rely on the dubious writing of right wing propagandists, to tell me about who Jimmy Carter is; I can rely on my own extensive personal experience with him. There is a whole world of Jimmy Carter compassion generosity and service, that would be opened to you if you choose to explore it.
Kessler, in my estimation have no credibility. Let me clue you in on something, that you are obviously oblivious to: anyone who consistently paints those who agree with his politics as saints, and those who disagree with his politics as despots, either has a completely distorted view of reality, or is an intentional liar pushing an agenda.
I've know many people, who fall all over the political, social, religious, and philosophical spectrum. And I can safely say that there is no correlation between ideology and character.
Can you really think Carter has EVER been the worst president in history??? Are you forgetting about such ignominies as Franklin Pierce, Warren G. Harding, James Buchanan, Lyndon B. Johnson, and George W. Bush ( just to name a few).
I know he pressured the Shah to halt his "Death Squads" which at this point appears to have been the only thing keeping the Religious fanatics in Iran under control. I know Jimmy Carter pressured the Shah into tolerating dissent that the Shah would not have tolerated had he not been so pressured by Jimmy Carter into doing so.
I know that when the Shah asked the United States for help in stemming the tide of the Violent revolution which was sweeping Iran at that time, Jimmy Carter refused. I know Jimmy Carter's state department urged the Military officers of Iran to co-operate with the new blood thirsty Religious fanatics taking over the nation. Every officer that did as they were advised by the American Government was murdered in cold blood.
I know that when the Revolutionaries committed an ACT of WAR against the United States, we vacillated and begged and pleaded with them (thereby emboldening them) When we should have beaten the Holy Stupid out of them!
IRAN is going to make a nuclear bomb and they are GOING to drop it on Israel. Israel is going to Nuke every City IN Iran, and the nations in the Gulf will be plunged into the most blood thirsty war that has ever occurred.
Jimmy Carter's compassion for the Iranian Underdogs during the Shah's reign is going to result in the most massive bloodletting the world has ever known. The Iranians believe the 12 Imam is coming, and that massive bloodshed is the signal of his coming. They are on the path to create a self fulfilling prophecy.
Words fail. I don't have enough, or passionate enough to describe the consequences of Jimmy Carter being President. In any case, I think you've stopped listening. When mistakes are measured in MEGADEATHS, Franklin Pierce, Warren G. Harding, James Buchanan, Lyndon B. Johnson, and George W. Bush, simply don't measure up.
Carter OWNS Iran.
Compassion, generosity and service are not in the job description. They are liberal constructs of government.imaginatium wrote:There is a whole world of Jimmy Carter compassion generosity and service, that would be opened to you if you choose to explore it.
As did the Presidential direct commands of many Presidents, many of whom are universally considered great! Lincoln for example!imaginatium wrote:The presidency of George W Bush, has already resulted in MEGADEATHS, by his command, not just as a indirect consequence.