Obama Makes Jimmy Carter Look Good

[TimTruett]

To whoever wrote: "How about treason? Obama knows full well he is not Permitted to be President because he is not a Natural Born Citizen. Taking the oath of office which REQUIRES him to defend the U.S. Constitution, is an immediate violation of the oath. "

Is that true? Is the president a natural born citizen or not? Of course he is.

No sane man could believe that there is a vast conspiracy like the Birthers imagine, or say that they imagine.

But if you really think that the president is guilty of treason, then I have a challenge for you. Kill him.

Are you a patriot, or a coward? Don't whine about how hard it would be to get to the president. As the Romans used to say, any man can be killed by one who is not afraid to die.

If you were a patriot, and if you really believed what you have said, then you would have killed the president by now. Why haven't you? I would have. Am I braver than you are? What's wrong with you?

Of course, I know why you haven't done anything - you're a liar. You don't really believe the crap you write. You know it's a lie. You know it's not true.

[JLawson]

To whoever wrote: "How about treason? Obama knows full well he is not Permitted to be President because he is not a Natural Born Citizen. Taking the oath of office which REQUIRES him to defend the U.S. Constitution, is an immediate violation of the oath. "

Is that true? Is the president a natural born citizen or not? Of course he is.

No sane man could believe that there is a vast conspiracy like the Birthers imagine, or say that they imagine.

But if you really think that the president is guilty of treason, then I have a challenge for you. Kill him.

Are you a patriot, or a coward? Don't whine about how hard it would be to get to the president. As the Romans used to say, any man can be killed by one who is not afraid to die.

If you were a patriot, and if you really believed what you have said, then you would have killed the president by now. Why haven't you? I would have. Am I braver than you are? What's wrong with you?

Of course, I know why you haven't done anything - you're a liar. You don't really believe the crap you write. You know it's a lie. You know it's not true.

Sigh.

Look, I don't know whether he is or isn't a 'natural born' citizen. I do think, however, that this whole controversy's been going on WAY too long, and that there's a really, REALLY simple way to silence the critics.

Just post his darn birth cert up on the White House web site. The one from Hawaii. The one they supposedly 'can't find'. Seriously. I know he has one, you know he has one, why the hell doesn't he just show the darn thing and get it all over with! Why mess around for about three years now?

And while they're posting his birth cert - how about putting up his transcripts so we can see how he did in college?

In fact - of the two I'd MUCH rather see his transcripts. Somehow, I don't think they're hidden because they'd give Stephen Hawking an inferiority complex...

[Jccarlton]

To whoever wrote: "How about treason? Obama knows full well he is not Permitted to be President because he is not a Natural Born Citizen. Taking the oath of office which REQUIRES him to defend the U.S. Constitution, is an immediate violation of the oath. "

Is that true? Is the president a natural born citizen or not? Of course he is.

No sane man could believe that there is a vast conspiracy like the Birthers imagine, or say that they imagine.

But if you really think that the president is guilty of treason, then I have a challenge for you. Kill him.

Are you a patriot, or a coward? Don't whine about how hard it would be to get to the president. As the Romans used to say, any man can be killed by one who is not afraid to die.

If you were a patriot, and if you really believed what you have said, then you would have killed the president by now. Why haven't you? I would have. Am I braver than you are? What's wrong with you?

Of course, I know why you haven't done anything - you're a liar. You don't really believe the crap you write. You know it's a lie. You know it's not true.

There is such a thing as rule of law. There are laws and procedures covering the removal of a president. Also there is a constitutional definition of treason, the only crime that is so defined, for very good reasons, which anyone with a modest knowledge of history should know. As for the birth certificate, who knows the actual facts surrounding it, not you, not me. It's not as is if it should be a great secret, yet that is what it has become. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask why such a simple matter has become a matter of national security. What is Obama trying so hard to hide. The Constitution specifies certain requirements for the office of the Presidency. Unfortunately heretofore, the possibility of a candidate for President being foreign born has never come up. the birthplaces of the candidates was known and generally the candidates had stable families. Obama's mother's screwing around has caused the issues around Obama to become clouded as to who the father even was. The issue should have been cleared up well before the election. Certifying the fulfillment of those requirements is a task that should have been publicly and visibly been done by the electors before the election. It was not, which is why we are where we are.
Frankly, I think the matter is going a dead issue simply because the train wreck the Democrats are so busily creating for themselves will probably insure that come next year there will be no more Democrats. If you listen to the ranting lately, you have to ask if they have any grip on the realities of the times. We are currently only taking in 60% of what we are spending and they talk about how we can't cut even the most trivial of discretionary budget items. Cowboy poetry indeed.

[Diogenes]

To whoever wrote: "How about treason? Obama knows full well he is not Permitted to be President because he is not a Natural Born Citizen. Taking the oath of office which REQUIRES him to defend the U.S. Constitution, is an immediate violation of the oath. "

Is that true? Is the president a natural born citizen or not? Of course he is.

How can you know? From what research i've done, Him being an Article II "Natural born citizen" is the least likely of the possibilities. If his father really was Barack Obama Sr., then he is automatically out. If his father was Frank Marshall Davis, as is suspected, then his chances are better.

No sane man could believe that there is a vast conspiracy like the Birthers imagine, or say that they imagine.

Who is talking about a vast conspiracy? It's just one man lying, and being protected by Hawaiian privacy laws.

But if you really think that the president is guilty of treason, then I have a challenge for you. Kill him.

Are you a patriot, or a coward? Don't whine about how hard it would be to get to the president. As the Romans used to say, any man can be killed by one who is not afraid to die.

If you were a patriot, and if you really believed what you have said, then you would have killed the president by now. Why haven't you? I would have. Am I braver than you are? What's wrong with you?

Your kooky perspective presumes this would benefit the nation. It would not. The damage caused by such an act would far outweigh the benefit. I firmly believe Timothy McVeigh is the only reason Bill Clinton won reelection. A far worse backlash would occur if Obama were removed by any but the legal authorities.

Given your foolish comments, I can safely conclude yours is an opinion not worthy of consideration.

Of course, I know why you haven't done anything - you're a liar. You don't really believe the crap you write. You know it's a lie. You know it's not true.

Is that a child babbling? blah blah blah.

[seedload]

But if you really think that the president is guilty of treason, then I have a challenge for you. <challenge omitted>

Again, this kind of talk is worthy of being moderated by a moderator. The moderator should moderate.

regards

[TDPerk]

"If his father really was Barack Obama Sr., then he is automatically out."

What an ignorant moron you are. The paramount controlling factor is whether he was born on US territory. The nationality of the father does not trump that.

[TDPerk]

You're not looking very hard, are you?

[Diogenes]

"If his father really was Barack Obama Sr., then he is automatically out."

What an ignorant moron you are.

I am the one that has researched this pretty d@mn thoroughly and you call ME the ignorant one? About par for the course nowadays. Would you even look at information which would prove you wrong about this?

The paramount controlling factor is whether he was born on US territory. The nationality of the father does not trump that.

This is a common misconception which is caused by a widespread MISINTERPRETATION of the meaning of the 14th Amendment.

You may think i'm a moron, but I doubt you think that George Will or Ann Coulter are morons. Read THEIR opinion on this.

EVEN if the 14th amendment WERE misinterpreted to grant citizenship to anyone born on the soil, it DID NOT REPEAL Article II which requires the President to be a "Natural Born Citizen", a condition which can only be satisfied by having TWO AMERICAN CITIZENS for parents.



I'm not going to get deep into this because too many times have I gone to the trouble of finding this stuff all to have someone walk away from the discussion. But here's a good place to start doing your own research. The Very letter that First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court wrote to George Washington regarding the need to keep foreigners (and their children) OUT of the office of the Presidency. This is how ARTICLE II GOT into the U.S. Constitution.




Because it's hard to read, here is the text.

New-York, 25th July, 1787.

Dear Sir,

...

Permit me to hint whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of foreigners into the administration of our national government ; and to declare expressly that the command in chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on any but a natural born citizen.

...

I remain, dear sir,

Your faithful friend and servant,

John Jay.

[TDPerk]

"I am the one that has researched this pretty d@mn thoroughly and you call ME the ignorant one?"

Absolutely. Your research is worth nothing. If you've learned anything, you've learned lies.

If he was born in Hawaii, he is a natural born citizen.

"You may think i'm a moron, but I doubt you think that George Will or Ann Coulter are morons. Read THEIR opinion on this.

EVEN if the 14th amendment WERE misinterpreted to grant citizenship to anyone born on the soil, it DID NOT REPEAL Article II which requires the President to be a "Natural Born Citizen", a condition which can only be satisfied by having TWO AMERICAN CITIZENS for parents."

Bullshit. Arguing from authority, where the authorities have feet of clay, will get you nowhere.

The child of not yet naturalized immigrants, being born on US soil, is a US citizen. Obama's mother was a citizen, and until shown otherwise, he was born on US soil--so he is a natural born citizen.

George W's concerns are well satisfied. Obama is more a natural born citizen than he was.

[Diogenes]

"I am the one that has researched this pretty d@mn thoroughly and you call ME the ignorant one?"

Absolutely. Your research is worth nothing. If you've learned anything, you've learned lies.

If he was born in Hawaii, he is a natural born citizen.

"You may think i'm a moron, but I doubt you think that George Will or Ann Coulter are morons. Read THEIR opinion on this.

EVEN if the 14th amendment WERE misinterpreted to grant citizenship to anyone born on the soil, it DID NOT REPEAL Article II which requires the President to be a "Natural Born Citizen", a condition which can only be satisfied by having TWO AMERICAN CITIZENS for parents."

Bullshit. Arguing from authority, where the authorities have feet of clay, will get you nowhere.

The child of not yet naturalized immigrants, being born on US soil, is a US citizen. Obama's mother was a citizen, and until shown otherwise, he was born on US soil--so he is a natural born citizen.

George W's concerns are well satisfied. Obama is more a natural born citizen than he was.

What a strange response. Up till now I had you pegged as one of the more reasonable denizens of this website. This subject is obviously something you cannot discuss dispassionately. It just goes to show, if you talk to people long enough, you'll stumble onto some subject that leaves you feeling as if you've entered the twilight zone.


Needless to say, your accusation that everything i've learned is "Lies" is unconvincing. Saying that documents which are over two hundred years old are "lies" is to allege a conspiracy far beyond that of which "the birthers" are accused.

Why on earth are you (and others) so certain of your belief? (especially when all the evidence points the other way.) That's the real mystery to me.

[TDPerk]

Why should it be discussed dispassionately? Some idiocies need to be shoved out of society into the wilderness where they belong. The notion that Obama is even arguably not a natural born citizen is at this point one of them.

"Saying that documents which are over two hundred years old are "lies" is to allege a conspiracy far beyond that of which "the birthers" are accused. "

The document does nothing to support your argument. What other "facts" you think you have will either be lies or distortions so great as to not be anything other than a lie.

I once had one idiot tell me that because British law made Obama a subject of the crown, he couldn't be a US citizen...as if we are bound to respect British laws!

"Why on earth are you (and others) so certain of your belief?"

Because there is not even trace evidence to support your belief.

[Diogenes]

Why should it be discussed dispassionately? Some idiocies need to be shoved out of society into the wilderness where they belong. The notion that Obama is even arguably not a natural born citizen is at this point one of them.

Why should we accept his claim? He won't show anyone a REAL birth certificate. With his legitimacy being questioned you would think this would be a No-brainer. Even his buddy Neil Abercrombie (the Governor) can't find it, People who WORKED for the Hawaiian election board can't find it. No one has come forward to claim they witnessed his birth. He has said he was from Kenya. His WIFE said he was from Kenya. His mother was provably in Washington state 18 days after he was born. The whole thing stinks to high heaven and you wonder how anyone could question his legitimacy?


It all belies the point. He can be an American Citizen with one parent. He cannot be an Article II "Natural born Citizen" with one parent. (Especially if the father is not an American.)

You can put your hands over your ears and go "NANANANANANANA I'm not LISTENING!!!!" all you want, but the reality is the man is absolutely NOT LEGITIMATE. (if his father is Barack Obama Sr., whom he looks nothing like. He DOES look a great deal like Frank Marshall Davis, a person who was known to be having sex with Stanley Ann Dunham at the appropriate time. )

"Saying that documents which are over two hundred years old are "lies" is to allege a conspiracy far beyond that of which "the birthers" are accused. "

The document does nothing to support your argument. What other "facts" you think you have will either be lies or distortions so great as to not be anything other than a lie.

Wise you are to know that two hundred year old documents are "LIES!!!!" without even having looked at them. You have the certainty of a fool.

I once had one idiot tell me that because British law made Obama a subject of the crown, he couldn't be a US citizen...as if we are bound to respect British laws!

If anything at all can be explained to you, know this. A "Citizen" is NOT the same thing as a "Natural Born Citizen." The most obvious proof of this is the fact that article two uses BOTH TERMS. If they meant the same thing, they wouldn't have used two different terms. Read the salient part of Article II yourself before you pronounce it LIES!!!!

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;

"Why on earth are you (and others) so certain of your belief?"

Because there is not even trace evidence to support your belief.

There is an IMMENSE quantity of evidence, but it is worthless to one who will not even look at it. You are ignorant and determined to remain that way.

[TDPerk]

"Why should we accept his claim? He won't show anyone a REAL birth certificate."

Of course there's something embarrassing on it, he's been hiding it since before he entered politics. Why won't he show it now? Most likely he's obeying the maxim that you should never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake.

Like the mistake you are making.

"With his legitimacy being questioned you would think this would be a No-brainer."

Not if continuing not to release it makes your opponents waste their time and energy. Like you are doing.

"No one has come forward to claim they witnessed his birth."

If any of them are even still alive, I doubt if anyone in NICU remembers me. What I am getting at is, what you have said is notable is not.

"He has said he was from Kenya."

He could as have reasonably said he was from Indonesia--that wouldn't have affected his citizenship either.

"His WIFE said he was from Kenya."

And if she'd said he was from Indonesia, it would be as relevant.

"His mother was provably in Washington state 18 days after he was born."

A fact you've asserted that even if true does nothing for your argument. It is something so utterly without relevance that your stating it goes to show the fragmented, deranged nature of your thinking on the topic.

"He cannot be an Article II "Natural born Citizen" with one parent. (Especially if the father is not an American.) "

Prove it.

"but the reality is the man is absolutely NOT LEGITIMATE."

He is an US citizen born on American territory to an US citizen parent unless you can prove otherwise, which makes him a natural born citizen. He was elected by a sadly large majority--that means his election IS LEGITIMATE. My caps lock works too. Your protests to the contrary are you putting your hands over your ears and shouting, "NANANANANANANA I'm not LISTENING!!!!"

"Wise you are to know that two hundred year old documents are "LIES!!!!" without even having looked at them."

I did look at it. It doesn't say anything of relevance to the question of Obama's citizenship. Your claim to the contrary is a lie your part. Or a delusion on your part.

"A "Citizen" is NOT the same thing as a "Natural Born Citizen." The most obvious proof of this is the fact that article two uses BOTH TERMS. If they meant the same thing, they wouldn't have used two different terms"

I never claimed they meant the same thing legally, but I feel free to use the term citizen when I mean natural born citizen, both because it is the colloquial meaning of the word and because it ties you up in knots. I'm saying that absent evidence Obama is not a natural born citizen, he is one for constitutional purposes--because he has an American parent and was born on US soil.

You'll have to prove he was born somewhere else to make any headway.

In short: "He can be an American Citizen with one parent. He cannot be an Article II "Natural born Citizen" with one parent."

Bullshit! The article does not define the term.

If you wanted to make headway, you might begin by pointing out the US statute which declares US born citizens with foreign subject fathers to not be US natural born citizens by birth. Because if they are US citizens by a parent and are born on American territory, then by the quite fundamental and otherwise controlling principle of "jus soli" which you may have seen but discounted in your rambling, Obama is a natural born citizen.

Good luck.

[ladajo]

He was elected by a sadly large majority--that means his election IS LEGITIMATE

Come on dude. That is not true. Electorally, he won. Majority, it was close.

Fundamently, please explain why the President can not show an actual Birth Certificate, vice a Statement of Birth, which is a "Yes this human was born" non-statement.

[Jccarlton]

"Why should we accept his claim? He won't show anyone a REAL birth certificate."

Of course there's something embarrassing on it, he's been hiding it since before he entered politics. Why won't he show it now? Most likely he's obeying the maxim that you should never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake.

Like the mistake you are making.

"With his legitimacy being questioned you would think this would be a No-brainer."

Not if continuing not to release it makes your opponents waste their time and energy. Like you are doing.

"No one has come forward to claim they witnessed his birth."

If any of them are even still alive, I doubt if anyone in NICU remembers me. What I am getting at is, what you have said is notable is not.

"He has said he was from Kenya."

He could as have reasonably said he was from Indonesia--that wouldn't have affected his citizenship either.

"His WIFE said he was from Kenya."

And if she'd said he was from Indonesia, it would be as relevant.

"His mother was provably in Washington state 18 days after he was born."

A fact you've asserted that even if true does nothing for your argument. It is something so utterly without relevance that your stating it goes to show the fragmented, deranged nature of your thinking on the topic.

"He cannot be an Article II "Natural born Citizen" with one parent. (Especially if the father is not an American.) "

Prove it.

"but the reality is the man is absolutely NOT LEGITIMATE."

He is an US citizen born on American territory to an US citizen parent unless you can prove otherwise, which makes him a natural born citizen. He was elected by a sadly large majority--that means his election IS LEGITIMATE. My caps lock works too. Your protests to the contrary are you putting your hands over your ears and shouting, "NANANANANANANA I'm not LISTENING!!!!"

"Wise you are to know that two hundred year old documents are "LIES!!!!" without even having looked at them."

I did look at it. It doesn't say anything of relevance to the question of Obama's citizenship. Your claim to the contrary is a lie your part. Or a delusion on your part.

"A "Citizen" is NOT the same thing as a "Natural Born Citizen." The most obvious proof of this is the fact that article two uses BOTH TERMS. If they meant the same thing, they wouldn't have used two different terms"

I never claimed they meant the same thing legally, but I feel free to use the term citizen when I mean natural born citizen, both because it is the colloquial meaning of the word and because it ties you up in knots. I'm saying that absent evidence Obama is not a natural born citizen, he is one for constitutional purposes--because he has an American parent and was born on US soil.

You'll have to prove he was born somewhere else to make any headway.

In short: "He can be an American Citizen with one parent. He cannot be an Article II "Natural born Citizen" with one parent."

Bullshit! The article does not define the term.

If you wanted to make headway, you might begin by pointing out the US statute which declares US born citizens with foreign subject fathers to not be US natural born citizens by birth. Because if they are US citizens by a parent and are born on American territory, then by the quite fundamental and otherwise controlling principle of "jus soli" which you may have seen but discounted in your rambling, Obama is a natural born citizen.

Good luck.

Then, when it really matters, have we not seen absolute proof of that, such as a properly signed witnessed copy of the long form birth certificate? Why has the Administration gone to such lengths and resources to prevent showing of same? Without a simple answer to those very basic questions, you got nothing.