We are Doomed! DOOOOOMMED I say!

[MSimon]

But the Kennedys made their money the old fashioned way. Alcohol prohibition. A government program. You would deny them the fruits of their labor?

Fortunately we still have programs in place that can turn street thugs into millionaires. What a country.

Bootleggers love Baptists. Feel the love.

[Diogenes]

But the Kennedys made their money the old fashioned way. Alcohol prohibition. A government program. You would deny them the fruits of their labor?

They were the Prohibition era equivalent of drug dealers, yes. They are entitled to none of the money made from ill gotten gains. Apart from that, Prohibition was not a government program. It was a Law. Indeed it was the highest law of the land. It was constitutional law. Comparing it with a "government program" demeans the concept of "Constitutional Amendment."

Fortunately we still have programs in place that can turn street thugs into millionaires. What a country.

Bootleggers love Baptists. Feel the love.

How do bootleggers love Baptists? What a peculiar theory!

[MSimon]

Yes. The bootleggers love the Baptists. Watch the video here:

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives ... d_sco.html

And why the love which is obviously unreturned in the same measure? Without the Baptists the bootleggers would have no political cover.

I mean seriously are you going to go for a spiel like: "Please outlaw product X so I can make a black market fortune?" Or one that says "Product X is condemned by moral people everywhere and the government should outlaw it to improve the lives of the poor unfortunates tormented by X."

And the answer practically is: "I know a guy, who knows a guy....."

The Baptists can get their injections of self righteousness (you can't believe how good it feels until you have tried it) and the bootleggers get their injections of cash and the politicians get their cover. One big happy family except for those who want X. But they do provide employment to a whole host of creatures seeing to their legal needs. Jailers, police, lawyers, judges, etc. And the Baptists are willing to pay the costs for all this "moral goodness". And then complain that the government is eating their substance. Good times.

And for your personal amusement a little Hayek:

http://www.fahayek.org/index.php?option ... view&id=46

[Diogenes]

Yes. The bootleggers love the Baptists. Watch the video here:

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives ... d_sco.html

And why the love which is obviously unreturned in the same measure? Without the Baptists the bootleggers would have no political cover.

I mean seriously are you going to go for a spiel like: "Please outlaw product X so I can make a black market fortune?" Or one that says "Product X is condemned by moral people everywhere and the government should outlaw it to improve the lives of the poor unfortunates tormented by X."

And the answer practically is: "I know a guy, who knows a guy....."

The Baptists can get their injections of self righteousness (you can't believe how good it feels until you have tried it) and the bootleggers get their injections of cash and the politicians get their cover. One big happy family except for those who want X. But they do provide employment to a whole host of creatures seeing to their legal needs. Jailers, police, lawyers, judges, etc. And the Baptists are willing to pay the costs for all this "moral goodness". And then complain that the government is eating their substance. Good times.

I saw the video. I was unimpressed. I made comments as to why I was unimpressed. Sure, it's a cutesy sounding phrase, but does it make any sense in the real world? Not a bit. Baptists neither enrich bootleggers, nor do bootleggers have much use for Baptists. The assumption that there is a mutually beneficial coalition is false.

The pursuit of monopoly and rent seeking is common to every industry, and they all rely on the power (or lack thereof) of the Government to create and enforce their monopoly. The argument that making the risk of arrest higher for any industry makes it more valuable is just plain foolish. Were it otherwise, EVERY business would seek to make it's product illegal.

The fact that most businesses do everything they can to keep their products legal ought to be a clue for anyone that this legal products are more profitable than illegal products.

If your theory is correct, we ought to be seeing bootlegged cigarettes, yet I never hear of any arrests on the charge of selling "bootlegged" cigarettes.

[MSimon]

Dude you don't get it. The purpose of the Baptists is not to enrich bootleggers. It is to provide them political cover.

When the Baptists get their fill of the usual black market torments the government withdraws the price supports that keep the bootleggers in business.

What the Baptists don't get is that they are dupes.

Why do the politicians like it? Bootleggers donate well. To politicians who promise to "fight the vice that corrupts our fair" city, state, country (pick one).

"If the trade is ever legalized, it will cease to be profitable from that time. The more difficulties that attend it, the better for you and us."
-- Directors of Jardine-Matheson

http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boddlesboys2.html

[Diogenes]

Dude you don't get it. The purpose of the Baptists is not to enrich bootleggers. It is to provide them political cover.

When the Baptists get their fill of the usual black market torments the government withdraws the price supports that keep the bootleggers in business.

What the Baptists don't get is that they are dupes.

Why do the politicians like it? Bootleggers donate well. To politicians who promise to "fight the vice that corrupts our fair" city, state, country (pick one).

"If the trade is ever legalized, it will cease to be profitable from that time. The more difficulties that attend it, the better for you and us."
-- Directors of Jardine-Matheson

http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boddlesboys2.html

You are right. I don't get it. I argue that this is because it makes no sense, you argue that it is because I don't understand something. If there is something further to understand on this issue, it is well hidden from me.

[MSimon]

You are right. I don't get it. I argue that this is because it makes no sense, you argue that it is because I don't understand something. If there is something further to understand on this issue, it is well hidden from me.

Which is what makes you so valuable to the bootleggers.

Or to put it in words you may better understand.

The road to hell is paved (in gold I might add) with good intentions.

[hanelyp]

Making a product illegal drives most suppliers out of the business, which of course drives up the price. The higher price and the legal risk both drive customers out of the market. The net result is less of the product sold, measured by product quantity or total profit made over the market.

But since what profit is made is by fewer suppliers, those few suppliers still in the business may make a large profit.

[MSimon]

Making a product illegal drives most suppliers out of the business, which of course drives up the price. The higher price and the legal risk both drive customers out of the market. The net result is less of the product sold, measured by product quantity or total profit made over the market.

But since what profit is made is by fewer suppliers, those few suppliers still in the business may make a large profit.

So true. In the beginning. And then competition starts making efficiency gains.

Since the Drug War started illegal heroin has come down in price by a factor of 600 (if you consider price and purity). But now the product has cachet - what is so good about it that makes people want it despite the risks? It must be really good. So you have lots of people trying it. A few million wind up occasional users and a few hundred thousand become hard core.

Let me just say this: the common perception about heroin has no basis in medical fact. When were cocainized negroes found to be a problem for society? About 1918. About the time agitation against alcohol was reaching a frenzy. Did I mention that we had a KKK loving president at the time who introduced Jim Crow to the Federal Government?

And to all my anti-government conservative friends - the government has been playing the "drug demon" game with you for 100 years. You are being propagandized by the government to send them $50 bn a year or more. The government needs the black market in order to keep the police occupied and in order to get the police militarized. Never considering what will be done to you when your turn comes.

The left (mostly) will get their legalization and all those SWAT teams are going to want to do something. Who will be the next Emmanuel Goldstein?

Want to know who Emmanuel Goldstein is? Read this book:

Animal Farm and 1984 - George Orwell (Author), Christopher Hitchens (Introduction)

1984 is the relevant one. But Animal Farm is a good read too. Oh. Yeah. Orwell and Hitchens are both on the left. And yet the books are for the most part conservative icons. Go figure.

[Diogenes]

You are right. I don't get it. I argue that this is because it makes no sense, you argue that it is because I don't understand something. If there is something further to understand on this issue, it is well hidden from me.

Which is what makes you so valuable to the bootleggers.

Or to put it in words you may better understand.

The road to hell is paved (in gold I might add) with good intentions.

I do the bootleggers no favors. Around here, you can get liquor anytime you want. All you have to have is a military ID and go on base. Somehow I think that more liquor gets bought and sold than ever before, now that it's legal.

[Skipjack]

Msimon, you clearly think that a total legalization of the drug market is such a good thing. I dont think so. You are willing to try it in the US? In Europe? You want to bet the lives and future of your children on it?
I would say why not first try it in another country? A smaller country? How about Israel? What do you think Msimon? Would you dare to suggest this idea in Israel?

[Diogenes]

Msimon, you clearly think that a total legalization of the drug market is such a good thing. I dont think so. You are willing to try it in the US? In Europe? You want to bet the lives and future of your children on it?
I would say why not first try it in another country? A smaller country? How about Israel? What do you think Msimon? Would you dare to suggest this idea in Israel?

I thought the Netherlands already fit this description?

[Skipjack]

I thought the Netherlands already fit this description?

Only cannabis and that is still regulated. It did not do them much good either. Every druggy and wannbe druggy goes to Amsterdam to get their stuff. Amsterdam has turned into one huge assembly of low lives.

[MSimon]

Msimon, you clearly think that a total legalization of the drug market is such a good thing. I dont think so. You are willing to try it in the US? In Europe? You want to bet the lives and future of your children on it?
I would say why not first try it in another country? A smaller country? How about Israel? What do you think Msimon? Would you dare to suggest this idea in Israel?

Keep up. It has been done in Portugal since about 2000. You don't hear much about it. I wonder why.

Sure I would suggest it in Israel. Except that it might be hard to get enacted with so many dependent on the illegal cash flows.

The future of my children? I do keep up and there is nothing preventing my kids from getting ANYTHING they want. So what has prevented them form becoming hard core users? The only method that works. They are not interested.

Pure and simple the Drug War is a government con. Just as much as the CAGW scare is. A wallet extraction scheme as our Brit friends like to put it.

It tickles my funny bone that so many think "prohibited" means PROHIBITED. So what does it really mean? Distributed by criminals.