We are Doomed! DOOOOOMMED I say!

[bcglorf]

If you wreck the economy, Gold won't be worth anything either. You can't eat it.

What the Keynesians have done/are doing isn't a clever plot. It is the most colossal folly.

But you don't need a fiat based currency to wreck the economy, people can, and did wreck economies with gold backed currencies for centuries.

I can agree with all manner of qualms over economic directions being taken currently, I just don't place gold vs. fiat based currency on that list. A fiat based currency just provides more control, that can be both good and bad depending who is at the helm. As long as economic collapse is bad for the guys at the helm then I say the control is better than naught.

I don't believe a Gold based currency can be wrecked to nothing. I believe a Fiat based currency can. The economic wreckage of a Gold based currency can cause severe economic distress. The Economic wreckage of a fiat based currency can put an economy back to the barter system. (stone age.)

Among the other reasons why I think the Specie based currency is the better solution is the fact that so many socialist minded people in the early part of the 20th century were supporting Fiat based currencies. As all their other ideas turned out to be crap, why wouldn't this one?

I would rather have the market regulating the value of money than government regulators attempting to play games with it. The market will never try to fool you into thinking it has your best interest at heart, and much ability to meddle will be withheld from supposed do-gooders.

If you want to talk about the extremes though it's still not cut and dry. If the economy collapses entirely, sure a gold currency gives the benefit that your gold is worth a little something globally and the fiat currency isn't. But remember that is the point where the currency switches away from fiat or gold to bullets and blood. You might have gold, but men with guns will be coming shortly to take it from you. A fiat based currency is backed by the government, meaning the collapse of the fiat currency amounts to the collapse of the government. The point being if the government collapses, I don't see it much mattering anymore if my wealth is in papers or gold, I'm going to be wanting canned food and bullets in it's place.

[Diogenes]

But you don't need a fiat based currency to wreck the economy, people can, and did wreck economies with gold backed currencies for centuries.

I can agree with all manner of qualms over economic directions being taken currently, I just don't place gold vs. fiat based currency on that list. A fiat based currency just provides more control, that can be both good and bad depending who is at the helm. As long as economic collapse is bad for the guys at the helm then I say the control is better than naught.

I don't believe a Gold based currency can be wrecked to nothing. I believe a Fiat based currency can. The economic wreckage of a Gold based currency can cause severe economic distress. The Economic wreckage of a fiat based currency can put an economy back to the barter system. (stone age.)

Among the other reasons why I think the Specie based currency is the better solution is the fact that so many socialist minded people in the early part of the 20th century were supporting Fiat based currencies. As all their other ideas turned out to be crap, why wouldn't this one?

I would rather have the market regulating the value of money than government regulators attempting to play games with it. The market will never try to fool you into thinking it has your best interest at heart, and much ability to meddle will be withheld from supposed do-gooders.

If you want to talk about the extremes though it's still not cut and dry. If the economy collapses entirely, sure a gold currency gives the benefit that your gold is worth a little something globally and the fiat currency isn't. But remember that is the point where the currency switches away from fiat or gold to bullets and blood. You might have gold, but men with guns will be coming shortly to take it from you. A fiat based currency is backed by the government, meaning the collapse of the fiat currency amounts to the collapse of the government. The point being if the government collapses, I don't see it much mattering anymore if my wealth is in papers or gold, I'm going to be wanting canned food and bullets in it's place.

You can hide your gold and pretend you don't have it. Forced reliance on paper issued by the Central Authority retains compliance to that Central Authority, even if it has gone over to the dark side.

What good is the King's note if you have to deal with the King?

[MSimon]

We have a thriving underground economy in America. With or without the king we will be fine. Better if the king was honest. OK if he is not.

[bcglorf]

I don't believe a Gold based currency can be wrecked to nothing. I believe a Fiat based currency can. The economic wreckage of a Gold based currency can cause severe economic distress. The Economic wreckage of a fiat based currency can put an economy back to the barter system. (stone age.)

Among the other reasons why I think the Specie based currency is the better solution is the fact that so many socialist minded people in the early part of the 20th century were supporting Fiat based currencies. As all their other ideas turned out to be crap, why wouldn't this one?

I would rather have the market regulating the value of money than government regulators attempting to play games with it. The market will never try to fool you into thinking it has your best interest at heart, and much ability to meddle will be withheld from supposed do-gooders.

If you want to talk about the extremes though it's still not cut and dry. If the economy collapses entirely, sure a gold currency gives the benefit that your gold is worth a little something globally and the fiat currency isn't. But remember that is the point where the currency switches away from fiat or gold to bullets and blood. You might have gold, but men with guns will be coming shortly to take it from you. A fiat based currency is backed by the government, meaning the collapse of the fiat currency amounts to the collapse of the government. The point being if the government collapses, I don't see it much mattering anymore if my wealth is in papers or gold, I'm going to be wanting canned food and bullets in it's place.

You can hide your gold and pretend you don't have it. Forced reliance on paper issued by the Central Authority retains compliance to that Central Authority, even if it has gone over to the dark side.

What good is the King's note if you have to deal with the King?

And you can do that now, and be even further ahead when the collapse comes by trading your worthless King's notes for valuable gold. Nobody's forcing you to jump off the cliff with everyone else, unless your trying to save people from themselves... I thought that was the domain of the evil socialists though.

[MSimon]

Best if we go down moderately hard. It fixes things for a couple of generations.

[Diogenes]

You can hide your gold and pretend you don't have it. Forced reliance on paper issued by the Central Authority retains compliance to that Central Authority, even if it has gone over to the dark side.

What good is the King's note if you have to deal with the King?

And you can do that now, and be even further ahead when the collapse comes by trading your worthless King's notes for valuable gold. Nobody's forcing you to jump off the cliff with everyone else, unless your trying to save people from themselves... I thought that was the domain of the evil socialists though.

The Gold is only valuable until the paper collapses. After that, the Gold won't be worth anything either. As you said, canned food and bullets will be the new coin of the realm.

As a result, I advise investing in tangible goods, especially what I refer to as "dual use" goods. Goods which will be worthwhile if the economy does or does not collapse.

[Diogenes]

Best if we go down moderately hard. It fixes things for a couple of generations.

If you don't make it hurt a little bit, the child isn't going to remember the lesson. Be kind. Spank hard enough for them to remember.

[MSimon]

Best if we go down moderately hard. It fixes things for a couple of generations.

If you don't make it hurt a little bit, the child isn't going to remember the lesson. Be kind. Spank hard enough for them to remember.

I raised 4 kids. All are doing well. I spanked the oldest one (when he was 4) once. I never laid a hand on any of our other kids. And I was sorry about that one time. Of course I'm aware of my family history and PTSD runs on both my side of the family and my mate's side. I wanted to avoid drug problems when they grew up. And after some experimentation on their part in their teens and early 20s they have become abstinent adults.

When the boys were young 3,4,6, they got into the habit of swearing. I cured that by going into the bedroom with them and I started swearing too. I encouraged them to swear as well. We had a laugh riot. The kids couldn't stop laughing. For about a week or two swearing picked up. Then it died out never to reappear.

I thought it most important that they always tell the truth. They do. And I did it by setting an example. No one in my family ever got punished for telling the truth. Even if the news was bad.

Pain delivered by the environment is a better teacher than pain delivered by an individual. It is hard to blame a tree for being too tall. It is not difficult to blame an adult for assault.

OTOH I would be loathe to force my methods on folks with different opinions.

[Diogenes]

Best if we go down moderately hard. It fixes things for a couple of generations.

If you don't make it hurt a little bit, the child isn't going to remember the lesson. Be kind. Spank hard enough for them to remember.

I raised 4 kids. All are doing well. I spanked the oldest one (when he was 4) once. I never laid a hand on any of our other kids. And I was sorry about that one time. Of course I'm aware of my family history and PTSD runs on both my side of the family and my mate's side. I wanted to avoid drug problems when they grew up. And after some experimentation on their part in their teens and early 20s they have become abstinent adults.

When the boys were young 3,4,6, they got into the habit of swearing. I cured that by going into the bedroom with them and I started swearing too. I encouraged them to swear as well. We had a laugh riot. The kids couldn't stop laughing. For about a week or two swearing picked up. Then it died out never to reappear.

I thought it most important that they always tell the truth. They do. And I did it by setting an example. No one in my family ever got punished for telling the truth. Even if the news was bad.

Pain delivered by the environment is a better teacher than pain delivered by an individual. It is hard to blame a tree for being too tall. It is not difficult to blame an adult for assault.

OTOH I would be loathe to force my methods on folks with different opinions.

If an experiment works, it beats theory any day of the week. I have read of a man that runs a sort of ranch for troubled children, and that he never uses corporeal punishment but still has a very impressive success rate. I suspect this methodology is a little like the "horse whisperer" and is a gift that some people have and others lack.

I have had a different experience. A couple of my kids i've never had to spank, while one had to be spanked when he was young, and another has seemingly not gotten nearly enough. He has my penchant for stubbornness, but lacks my Knowledge, talents and wit. He's getting spanked a bit by life right now, and is seemingly starting to wake up.


In any case, humanity as a whole seems to require harsh lessons to get them to remember. Unfortunately, even with the harshest of lessons, eventually they do the same thing over again anyway. (After enough time has passed.) Georgian England was dying by the thousands from venereal disease, and Victorian England was the response. Now people have forgotten about Georgian England.


I suspect we have a hard lesson coming soon. The signs are pointing that way. Fiscal austerity is going to assert itself.

[Diogenes]

Social Security Disability Insurance on Brink of Insolvency

New congressional estimates say the trust fund that supports Social Security disability will run out of money by 2017, leaving the program unable to pay full benefits, unless Congress acts. About two decades later, Social Security's much larger retirement fund is projected to run dry as well.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08 ... nsolvency/

[Diogenes]

U.S. debt is now equal to economy

The amount of money the federal government owes to its creditors, combined with IOUs to government retirement and other programs, now tops $15.23 trillion.

That's roughly equal to the value of all goods and services the U.S. economy produces in one year: $15.17 trillion as of September, the latest estimate. Private projections show the economy likely grew to about $15.3 trillion by December — a level the debt is likely to surpass this month.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... 52460208/1?

[Diogenes]

Despite Past Failures, Fed Looks To Print More Money

Alarmed at the economy's slow pace, the ongoing slump in housing and the threat of European debt defaults, the central bank is preparing a third round of "quantitative easing" — the monetary equivalent of a defibrillator paddle placed on the economy's chest.

Worse, just-released minutes from 2006 Fed meetings show central bankers had no clue the U.S. was about to be hit by a housing tsunami of epic proportions. If they couldn't predict the future then, why should we have faith they can now?

http://news.investors.com/Article/59785 ... -money.htm

[Diogenes]

I Got Food Stamps and So Can You!

Approximately one month after I had received the first letter, another letter found its way to my mailbox from the Department of Human Services. I opened it up to find an EBT card with my name on it, instructions on how to activate and use the card, and the amount I could access on it per month — 200 dollars. Nothing followed-up my interview, other than the evidently pointless letter I received during the previous month. No one ever asked for a copy of my birth certificate or Social Security card, nor for my student identification card. I answered all of their questions truthfully, but how were they to know that I was who I said I was? Is it really this simple to obtain welfare benefits here in the United States?

Given my own personal experience, it is clear that food stamps are too easy to obtain, student or not. I realize that the food stamp program is different in all states, and some are more thorough with background checks than others, but much greater reform is needed. It concerns me that 15% of the population, or 46 million people, rely on others’ tax dollars to pay for their food. That doesn’t sound like freedom to me.

http://thecollegeconservative.com/2012/ ... o-can-you/

[choff]

May have been discussed at another time, but an interesting video on the history of reserve banks and how former president Jackson opposed them, along with alternatives, including an end to fractional reserve banking.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9wYu1SR ... re=related

[Diogenes]

May have been discussed at another time, but an interesting video on the history of reserve banks and how former president Jackson opposed them, along with alternatives, including an end to fractional reserve banking.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9wYu1SR ... re=related

Thanks, I'll check it out.