A good Post On the Deepwater Horizon Accident

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Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Really? This happens a lot or are you just blowing smoke? It is a relatively rare event, and rarer still that the damage should be so extensive.
Google is your friend:
http://home.versatel.nl/the_sims/rig/i-blowout.htm
What do they achieve by blowing a South Korean warship in two?
I admit that I am not up to date here, but the last thing that I had heard was that it had run on a mine.
I reckon Skipjack meant the latter. Foolish, excessive greed. Not greed the force multiplier.
Indeed. This must have been one of those language barrier things. In German "Gier" (greed) is almost always meant in a negative way. It has an animalistic, almost instinctual touch to it too. E.g. a carnivorous animal having "Gier" for food.

Diogenes
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Diogenes »

Skipjack wrote:
Really? This happens a lot or are you just blowing smoke? It is a relatively rare event, and rarer still that the damage should be so extensive.
Google is your friend:
http://home.versatel.nl/the_sims/rig/i-blowout.htm

I count 16 notable blowouts since 1962. (per your link) There are currently 497 offshore rigs working worldwide. If they had all occurred this year, that would be 3.2% of the total, a small number. As they occurred over a 48 year period, the number relative to the rig total is far smaller.


This makes my previous statement fairly accurate.

Skipjack wrote:
What do they achieve by blowing a South Korean warship in two?
I admit that I am not up to date here, but the last thing that I had heard was that it had run on a mine.

I had read that it was torpedoed. Even if it were a mine, it is still an act of war, and likewise an act of a belligerent lunatic. Perhaps this incident is the reason for his visit to China?


Skipjack wrote:
I reckon Skipjack meant the latter. Foolish, excessive greed. Not greed the force multiplier.
Indeed. This must have been one of those language barrier things. In German "Gier" (greed) is almost always meant in a negative way. It has an animalistic, almost instinctual touch to it too. E.g. a carnivorous animal having "Gier" for food.

"Greed" ordinarily has a negative connotation in English as well, and it is often used to describe people in a negative light, whereas the more benign term "ambitious" is considered a positive by most people. Use of the word "greed" is often just propaganda by opponents of capitalism.

Recall the Star Trek series "Deep space nine". The Ferengi were personified as a caricature of capitalists. They were midget sized, pointy teethed, grotesque goblin like creatures obsessed with "Profit" and the oppression of their women. They were intended to be vile and hateful appearing, and the only Ferengi which were worthy of sympathy were the ones which espoused liberal orthodoxy, or "learned" lessons of liberal orthodoxy.


Such is the methods of media propaganda disguised as entertainment.

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Diogenes wrote:
ladajo wrote:I would be VERY surprised to see that a North Korean submaine made it all the way to the Gulf of Mexico. Maybe Chavez provided services during the trans-atlantic phase with his secret T-AKO. Oh, even better, it was shipped in pieces in clandestine shipping containers via the panama canal, and re-assembled in Venezuela for the mission. And it even made a stop at the secret underwater EMC2 lab for replenishment and stores. Oh, wait, that was in the eastern atlantic. Darn it, it must have come over the north pole, or was it under the south pole???
Ooooh, some many possibilities, we should have seen it coming. Those pesky North Korean's, always outsmarting us...

:D
The article says the attack was carried out by a ship leaving a cuban port. The article asserts that the ship deployed two mini-subs with torpedoes. Don't be frightened. Copy and past the link. :)

It's a far fetched, but perhaps possible theory. If nothing else, it's good for comic relief.

I would rather stay afraid... :(

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

I count 16 notable blowouts since 1962. (per your link) There are currently 497 offshore rigs working worldwide. If they had all occurred this year, that would be 3.2% of the total, a small number. As they occurred over a 48 year period, the number relative to the rig total is far smaller.
First off all, nobody claims that this list is complete. It is just A list.
Here is a book that talks about more than 100 blowouts:
http://www.rigzone.com/store/product.as ... 64&c_id=21

And even if it is only 16 blowouts, it is still infinitely more than there were oild rigs attacked by submarines in the same period of time.
Even if it were a mine, it is still an act of war
Yeah, but from what I gathered it could have just as well been a mine left over from the Korean war in the 50ies:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/2 ... 16788.html
Anyway, as I said before, it is very unlikely that an oil rig located got torpedoed. The oil rig is almost 10,000 miles away from north Korea. There would have been many, many more, much closer targets.
The whole assumption is just ridiculous!
I am not saying that because I dont believe that North Korean idiots would not be capabable of doing something as stupid as that mentally anyway. However it just seems so much more unlikely than a simple accident that keeps happening on oil rigs ALL THE TIME.
Some are bigger, some are smaller. The link I posted first were bigger accidents, comparable to the current one. So I dont get why that possibility is so hard to accept. I guess that some people just always have to look for somebody else to blame, that they can shoot at, no matter what it is.

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

I can't believe no one keyed on my under the south pole submarine route comment...

sigh...

I think Elvis took out the rig with his flying pink cadillac.

Jccarlton
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Location: Southern Ct

Post by Jccarlton »

Another good article from an oilfield magazine:
http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/arti ... am.lempira

JCee
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:32 am

Post by JCee »

Skipjack wrote:
Really? This happens a lot or are you just blowing smoke? It is a relatively rare event, and rarer still that the damage should be so extensive.
Google is your friend:
http://home.versatel.nl/the_sims/rig/i-blowout.htm
What do they achieve by blowing a South Korean warship in two?
I admit that I am not up to date here, but the last thing that I had heard was that it had run on a mine.

It was torpedoed.
http://defensetech.org/2010/04/28/u-s-a ... k-cheonan/
It is Not Frontpage because the South Korean and US Gov. do not wish a full fledge War (Seoul is within North Korean artillery range). I do however expect a manned North Korean warship to somehow lose water tight integrity under mysterious conditions later this year.

I put the odds >90% it was just an accident for the cause of the BP Gulf oil spill, <8% Econuts, <2% Torpedoed.
Econuts and the North Korean Government aren't sane so you never know what crackpot plan they may come up with and try to implement.

BenTC
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Post by BenTC »

ladajo wrote:I can't believe no one keyed on my under the south pole submarine route comment....
I only just read it now, did get it, was thinking of a retort, but find I'm too slow.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

Diogenes
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Diogenes »

Skipjack wrote:
I count 16 notable blowouts since 1962. (per your link) There are currently 497 offshore rigs working worldwide. If they had all occurred this year, that would be 3.2% of the total, a small number. As they occurred over a 48 year period, the number relative to the rig total is far smaller.
First off all, nobody claims that this list is complete. It is just A list.
Here is a book that talks about more than 100 blowouts:
http://www.rigzone.com/store/product.as ... 64&c_id=21

I took note of the word "Notable." I knew when I saw it that the list was not complete, however I expected it to be examples of the worst.

I know full well about blowouts. *I've* worked to install Blow out Preventers. Blowouts are not that common but they do happen. This one in the gulf is rather peculiar because it happened AFTER they sealed the hole. Normally a blowout occurs while DRILLING.

Skipjack wrote: And even if it is only 16 blowouts, it is still infinitely more than there were oild rigs attacked by submarines in the same period of time.

Don't know if it was a submarine, or ship carried torpedoes, or even that it was attacked at all. My original thought was that it might have been sabotaged. I posted the link to the North Korean submarine story just to show that other people are thinking it might have been some sort of attack.

From my vantage point, nothing has been ruled out. The news articles about SWAT teams being sent to oil rigs in the gulf is extremely peculiar, but not in light of unknown (to us) knowledge regarding a possible attack.

Skipjack wrote:
Even if it were a mine, it is still an act of war
Yeah, but from what I gathered it could have just as well been a mine left over from the Korean war in the 50ies:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/2 ... 16788.html

I don't regard anything coming from the Huffington Post as credible. Arianna Huffington is a nut, and so are the people who write at the Huffington Post. Daily Kos probably has more credibility. They are at least up front about their partisanship.


Skipjack wrote: Anyway, as I said before, it is very unlikely that an oil rig located got torpedoed. The oil rig is almost 10,000 miles away from north Korea. There would have been many, many more, much closer targets.
The whole assumption is just ridiculous!

It IS very unlikely, and probably didn't happen. The truth is probably very mundane, but why the blowout while they were getting ready to rig down? And why the SWAT teams to the oil rigs? Peculiar.
Skipjack wrote: I am not saying that because I dont believe that North Korean idiots would not be capabable of doing something as stupid as that mentally anyway. However it just seems so much more unlikely than a simple accident that keeps happening on oil rigs ALL THE TIME.
Some are bigger, some are smaller. The link I posted first were bigger accidents, comparable to the current one. So I dont get why that possibility is so hard to accept. I guess that some people just always have to look for somebody else to blame, that they can shoot at, no matter what it is.
The story (fabricated or not) is the result of a long familiarity with the nutty things North Korea does. It would not surprise me at all for North Korea to do something like this. They have done weird stuff in the past. For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if the Iranians did something like this. They DO have a well known submarine capability. They also benefit from a spike in oil prices, which such an event might make easily predictable. Their Republican guard people are not always following orders from the central government, and they often operate independently, especially regarding attacks on the US.

In any case, i'm tired of this subject. Like Polywell, we will know when we know.

Diogenes
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Diogenes »

JCee wrote: I put the odds >90% it was just an accident for the cause of the BP Gulf oil spill, <8% Econuts, <2% Torpedoed.
Econuts and the North Korean Government aren't sane so you never know what crackpot plan they may come up with and try to implement.

Seems like a reasonable assessment to me. :)

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

I don't regard anything coming from the Huffington Post as credible. Arianna Huffington is a nut, and so are the people who write at the Huffington Post. Daily Kos probably has more credibility. They are at least up front about their partisanship
This was just the first of many links that came up when I did a quick google search on the topic.
Here are some other news sources that say the same thing:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8593846.stm
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/63488
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36082044/ns ... iapacific/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/ ... ated_story

Anyway, it is not certain what it was. It may have been an old forgotten mine from the old war. That is the thing with mines, they may come back to bite your ass decades later. Nasty stuff.
Blowouts are not that common but they do happen.
From what I understand about one a year. So not that uncommon either.
Some do more damage some do less damage. Accidents do happen.
And those blowout preventers do fail:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/04/30/9 ... shore.html

krenshala
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Location: Austin, TX, NorAm, Sol III

Post by krenshala »

Skipjack wrote: This was just the first of many links that came up when I did a quick google search on the topic.
Here are some other news sources that say the same thing ...
Don't forget that some folks don't put much effort into validating their sources. I remember reading recently about a Pakistani (or was it Indian?) news outlet that was forwarding on a news article from The Onion, thinking it was real news.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Yeah, I would believe that about SOME, but these are some big names there and there were many, many, many more.

hanelyp
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Post by hanelyp »

Regarding SWAT teams being sent to oil rigs, I read one report that it's really SWOT teams to access operational weaknesses and risks, widely misreported by the news media.

JCee
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:32 am

Post by JCee »

Skipjack wrote:
I don't regard anything coming from the Huffington Post as credible. Arianna Huffington is a nut, and so are the people who write at the Huffington Post. Daily Kos probably has more credibility. They are at least up front about their partisanship
This was just the first of many links that came up when I did a quick google search on the topic.
Here are some other news sources that say the same thing:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8593846.stm
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/63488
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36082044/ns ... iapacific/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/ ... ated_story

Anyway, it is not certain what it was. It may have been an old forgotten mine from the old war. That is the thing with mines, they may come back to bite your ass decades later. Nasty stuff.
Blowouts are not that common but they do happen.
From what I understand about one a year. So not that uncommon either.
Some do more damage some do less damage. Accidents do happen.
And those blowout preventers do fail:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/04/30/9 ... shore.html
The South Korean ship was Torpedoed didn't you check the publication dates on your links they are all from March 29 immediately after the attack when everybody was in denial mode to prevent Korean War 2 from starting. Now that more than a month has gone by and everybody has calmed down accurate info and pictures are filtering out all the various Defense/Military info sites now concede it was a Torpedo attack. If you followed the link I previously posted to DefenseTech.org they have a picture of the sunken ship. The ship is sliced clean in half via a modern magnetic influence torpedo. An old WWII or Korean War era contact mine makes a big hole in the ship it does not slice the keel and ship in half that is what modern torpedoes do. With the internet and so many exMilitary or advanced Amateurs Buffs out there the governments are now admitting it was a Torpedoed now that the immediate call for blood is over. I still expect a North Korean Ship or Sub to Mysteriously lose water tight integrity and sink sometime this year. I still closely follow Military stuff and Weapon Tech even though I am long out of the navy. I used to be Aircraft Ordinance with a Damage Control PO and a Surface Warfare Qualification (before it got watered down) before getting out and going to college for Molecular Biology when the Cold War ended. The sites like the BBC will not revisit the South Korean Ship sinking now as they would have to admit it was a torpedo attack so they will now ignore it.

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