Why do we expect poor defendants to be financially liable for damages incurred while driving when we NEVER expect them to be financially liable for any OTHER civil case?
Uhm, if you are to clumsy to walk and you fall over in a fancy store, breaking several plates of Meissner porcellain, who do you think will pay for that? Well you of course! The store owner will make sure that you will pay and he will happily charge your credit card with it for the entire value of the broken items.
You dont believe me? Go and try it out!
Let's assume I don't have a credit card. (Seriously, how many poor people do YOU know with credit cards? )
How's he going to make me pay?
Rather than use the broken China example, how about the accidentally dropping a flower pot on someone's head?
How about Fines and or Jail time? The Municipal governments already trade jail time for fines owed to them, we could simply impose the same system for Civil damages.
And we could do something like have the local government pay the injured party $100 for ever day the miscreant spends in jail. That would be fair. Then the local government could get insurance against such charges.
Which would give them an incentive to drive such folks out of their jurisdictions.
There is no limit to the good you can do with the right laws.
Or we could do the sensible thing and suggest that those with risk of losses insure against such risks.
Moral of the story? Don't start a 100 car pile up. You will never get out of jail. Another moral of the story? Current mandatory insurance limits are way too low. They still allow way to many marginal folks on the road.
Sometimes you can't detect subtlety when you see it.
I knew that no one would agree to jailing people for civil damages. (Even though Municipalities do it all the time. They get around the "Civil" part by calling it "Criminal.")
Jailing people for civil damages is reminiscent of "Debtor's Prison" and the concept is very much in disrepute, although I think there is some merit to it.
Municipalities have a sliding scale on what each day of Jail time is worth. Initially the compensation is very low. (Like $8.00/ day) As time goes by, the rate creeps up, and if the inmate exhibits good behavior, They often make "trusty" status and get $80.00/ day.)
I personally believe there ought to be some method for punishing people who engage in reckless disregard. Being poor ought not be an immunity from the consequences of behaving in a reckless or irresponsible manner.
Diogenes wrote:
The point that the poor might become complacent about damaging other people's property is a good point. There MUST be a means of insuring that they take all precautions against behaving recklessly, or with callous disregard.
What should we do (in the absence of making them pay before the fact) to dissuade them from behaving recklessly?
How about Fines and or Jail time? The Municipal governments already trade jail time for fines owed to them, we could simply impose the same system for Civil damages.
What is wrong with that? Sure, the plaintiff might not get any money, but plaintiff's never do if the defendant is poor anyway. ANOTHER GOOD POINT!
End. Done. QRT.
You are not going to tell me what part of my argument you found philosophically legitimate?
I am not exaggerating. The extent of the injuries are not fully known, but for the sake of argument it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of cases where Necks and Backs were broken in the severest way.
Here is a clue for you:
Diogenes wrote:Summers said both were conscious and “can feel their extremities.”
Translation: This means that the spine has at least not been severed completely and is probably completely in tact.
I knew that no one would agree to jailing people for civil damages.
Here you go to prison if you cant pay your parking fines. False parking is not a crime. It is a misdemeanor, yet you can still go to jail for it.
Still, you are right, it is of course not well regarded by people. What will happen though is that the person in question will have his or her income seized down to the existential minimum, every month. And if this person should try to make money beyond that without handing it in to the authorities, then this is indeed a crime and that can then indeed be punished with jail.
Skipjack wrote:
Here you go to prison if you cant pay your parking fines. False parking is not a crime. It is a misdemeanor, yet you can still go to jail for it.
Still, you are right, it is of course not well regarded by people. What will happen though is that the person in question will have his or her income seized down to the existential minimum, every month. And if this person should try to make money beyond that without handing it in to the authorities, then this is indeed a crime and that can then indeed be punished with jail.
Well, I quite doubt that anyone in Austria can't pay their parking fines. I think you could get sent to jail for refusing to pay the fine. That is a separate offence from illegal parking.
To go back to the flower pot example: actually I do carry insurance against dropping flower pots on people. Paradoxically I carry the insurance precisely because I am rich enough to pay damages (for most likely outcomes) in this eventuality, but I don't want to be bankrupted by an accident. Obviously if I start deliberately throwing flower pots at people my insurance companies will refuse liability ...
I am not exaggerating. The extent of the injuries are not fully known, but for the sake of argument it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of cases where Necks and Backs were broken in the severest way.
Here is a clue for you:
Diogenes wrote:Summers said both were conscious and “can feel their extremities.”
Translation: This means that the spine has at least not been severed completely and is probably completely in tact.
Doesn't invalidate my point above .The police officer I spoke of previously can feel his extremities, and he can move one finger a little bit, but he is still mostly paralyzed from the neck down. My point being that if this example doesn't serve, there are plenty others that will.
Skipjack wrote:
I knew that no one would agree to jailing people for civil damages.
Here you go to prison if you cant pay your parking fines. False parking is not a crime. It is a misdemeanor, yet you can still go to jail for it.
Still, you are right, it is of course not well regarded by people. What will happen though is that the person in question will have his or her income seized down to the existential minimum, every month. And if this person should try to make money beyond that without handing it in to the authorities, then this is indeed a crime and that can then indeed be punished with jail.
The laws are apparently different in Austria than they are here.
Years ago I tongue in cheek proposed creating a company called "Hire a bum." The theory being that bums can't be held accountable for anything.
Need someone punched in the mouth? We here at "Hire a bum" can make it happen! Need someone to do the dirty work that you can't because you can be held liable? "Hire a bum" to the rescue ! etc.
A bum can "accidentally" destroy all sorts of property without triggering a criminal complaint. Civil complaints have no bite whatsoever.
Skipjack wrote:
Here you go to prison if you cant pay your parking fines. False parking is not a crime. It is a misdemeanor, yet you can still go to jail for it.
Still, you are right, it is of course not well regarded by people. What will happen though is that the person in question will have his or her income seized down to the existential minimum, every month. And if this person should try to make money beyond that without handing it in to the authorities, then this is indeed a crime and that can then indeed be punished with jail.
Well, I quite doubt that anyone in Austria can't pay their parking fines. I think you could get sent to jail for refusing to pay the fine. That is a separate offence from illegal parking.
To go back to the flower pot example: actually I do carry insurance against dropping flower pots on people. Paradoxically I carry the insurance precisely because I am rich enough to pay damages (for most likely outcomes) in this eventuality, but I don't want to be bankrupted by an accident. Obviously if I start deliberately throwing flower pots at people my insurance companies will refuse liability ...
This reinforces my point nicely! A poor person could not be held accountable for it, as long as it was an accident.
A friend of mine mentioned as other examples, accidentally infecting someone with tuberculosis. How many children have burned down a building accidentally by playing with matches?
People have started fires accidentally that ended up burning more houses than anyone could ever pay for.
Examples of asymmetric damage are not hard to come up with.
