Ah, in that case we're quids in - the bl**dy aristocrats own all the deer so ...Diogenes wrote: Unless it is a deer who darted out in front of you...
Republicans are stupid thieves.
And that is the crux of it. It is human nature to demand revenge for wrongs. We think nothing of taking the risk that a deer may jump in front of us and cause a fatal wreck, but we demand an accounting of any person who has the temerity to injure us.EricF wrote:It's not just about financial risk to me, it becomes an issue of justice when one person cannot compensate someone who they have done financial or bodily damage to.
We don't seek justice from an animal. Or fate. We demand it from others though.
I dont see how this is a problem.Diogenes wrote:And that is the crux of it. It is human nature to demand revenge for wrongs. We think nothing of taking the risk that a deer may jump in front of us and cause a fatal wreck, but we demand an accounting of any person who has the temerity to injure us.EricF wrote:It's not just about financial risk to me, it becomes an issue of justice when one person cannot compensate someone who they have done financial or bodily damage to.
We don't seek justice from an animal. Or fate. We demand it from others though.
You have compulsory everything in the UK. (except punishment for criminals.) Some folks refer to the UK as the "Nanny State."mad_derek wrote:Yes, well ... as ChrisMB has pointed out we have compulsory insurance in UK with tow and crush rules for non compliance. I've just looked at one of my policies and the limit for third party damages is £20,000,000 (and I do mean 20 million pounds) for a premium of £249.75 per annum - oh and my car is covered whatever happens (I'll leave you guys to do the currency conversions - if I do it it'll be wrong in five minutes).
There are those of us across the pond who are making efforts to prevent the US from going in the same direction. We have so far been fighting a rear guard action. We are looking for some Hope and Change come November though.
I don't mind people being responsible for their own actions, but why must they be responsible for everyone else's actions? Why am *I* insuring your car from damage? Why don't we all insure our own? Those of us who want it, buy it. Those of us who don't, Don't.EricF wrote:Because we live in a society that makes people responsible for their actions. And because we place value on our cars and necks, and get very angry when someone takes them from us. Unlike MSimon, I am a firm believer in justice. And vengeanceThey cannot. Neither can they fix the man's broken neck. Why should we live our lives in fear of poor people not being able to pay for our cars or fix our broken necks?
I call this strange idea "Freedom."
Ha ha ha... not around here. Outside the City, and just north on the Ft. Sill range where the Deer and the Antelope play,(literally) there are Turkeys, Bobcats, Rattlesnakes, Buzzards, Buffalo, Longhorns, prairie dogs, and sometimes soldiers.mad_derek wrote:Ah, in that case we're quids in - the bl**dy aristocrats own all the deer so ...Diogenes wrote: Unless it is a deer who darted out in front of you...
My cousin was driving down the road one night when he hit a cow. I mentioned cows move pretty slow. Could he not see it? He says "it Darted out in front of me."
I just never visualized a cow as "Darting."
We don't have compulsory everything ... having said that, I agree with your general thrust.Diogenes wrote:You have compulsory everything in the UK. (except punishment for criminals.) Some folks refer to the UK as the "Nanny State."mad_derek wrote:Yes, well ... as ChrisMB has pointed out we have compulsory insurance in UK with tow and crush rules for non compliance. I've just looked at one of my policies and the limit for third party damages is £20,000,000 (and I do mean 20 million pounds) for a premium of £249.75 per annum - oh and my car is covered whatever happens (I'll leave you guys to do the currency conversions - if I do it it'll be wrong in five minutes).
There are those of us across the pond who are making efforts to prevent the US from going in the same direction. We have so far been fighting a rear guard action. We are looking for some Hope and Change come November though.
Insanity Rules!
That's not how insurance works. You don't pay to insure everyones property, just the people who's risk pool you share. High risk people are lumped together and pay a higher premium, low risk people are in the low risk pool and have lower premiums.Diogenes wrote:I don't mind people being responsible for their own actions, but why must they be responsible for everyone else's actions? Why am *I* insuring your car from damage? Why don't we all insure our own? Those of us who want it, buy it. Those of us who don't, Don't.EricF wrote:Because we live in a society that makes people responsible for their actions. And because we place value on our cars and necks, and get very angry when someone takes them from us. Unlike MSimon, I am a firm believer in justice. And vengeanceThey cannot. Neither can they fix the man's broken neck. Why should we live our lives in fear of poor people not being able to pay for our cars or fix our broken necks?
I call this strange idea "Freedom."
We can insure ourselves, thats called being 'self-insured'. Rental companies are frequently self insured. They set aside a pool of money to use in the event there is damage to their property that they cannot recoup from the responsible party.
Unfortunately by and large people are not responsible enough to set aside money for anything, let alone a car accident, so they wind up causing damage to other people. By forcing people to buy insurance, you are forcing them to be responsible for their actions up front.
You know what's funny, if a cow escapes from the pasture and you hit the cow with the car, in 99% of the country the farmer is responsible for the damage to your automobile (hence his property insurance becomes responsible). Same if your pet dog/cat ect escapes from captivity and is hit by a car, it's your fault for the damage to the auto.Diogenes wrote:Ha ha ha... not around here. Outside the City, and just north on the Ft. Sill range where the Deer and the Antelope play,(literally) there are Turkeys, Bobcats, Rattlesnakes, Buzzards, Buffalo, Longhorns, prairie dogs, and sometimes soldiers.mad_derek wrote:Ah, in that case we're quids in - the bl**dy aristocrats own all the deer so ...Diogenes wrote: Unless it is a deer who darted out in front of you...
My cousin was driving down the road one night when he hit a cow. I mentioned cows move pretty slow. Could he not see it? He says "it Darted out in front of me."
I just never visualized a cow as "Darting."
Except in parts of Texas, which have free range laws. Then if you hit the cattle, its your fault
Don't even get me started on the hit deer accidents. When hunting season starts I get 5-6 of them called in PER DAY. By the way if you hit a deer, don't save the hair and feces, wash that crap off
Had a claim from out west where a deer leapt off an embankment into the back seat of a dude's convertible. Had another one where a lady hit a deer in a freakin Wal*Mart parking lot!
It misses the point. We can't demand that everyone else stay off the highway because we are afraid that they may injure us. We must accept the risk that we might get hurt badly, possibly killed, or worse, that someone will damage our pretty car and not pay us.EricF wrote:I dont see how this is a problem.Diogenes wrote:And that is the crux of it. It is human nature to demand revenge for wrongs. We think nothing of taking the risk that a deer may jump in front of us and cause a fatal wreck, but we demand an accounting of any person who has the temerity to injure us.EricF wrote:It's not just about financial risk to me, it becomes an issue of justice when one person cannot compensate someone who they have done financial or bodily damage to.
We don't seek justice from an animal. Or fate. We demand it from others though.
If my son is killed by a deer or a blown out tire, it provides me no relief to wish it had been a person I can collect money from.
I accept that risk and so does everyone else. Why can we not accept the same risk for uninsured drivers?
Because the deer or blown tire doesn't know any better. People do.Diogenes wrote:It misses the point. We can't demand that everyone else stay off the highway because we are afraid that they may injure us. We must accept the risk that we might get hurt badly, possibly killed, or worse, that someone will damage our pretty car and not pay us.EricF wrote:I dont see how this is a problem.Diogenes wrote: And that is the crux of it. It is human nature to demand revenge for wrongs. We think nothing of taking the risk that a deer may jump in front of us and cause a fatal wreck, but we demand an accounting of any person who has the temerity to injure us.
We don't seek justice from an animal. Or fate. We demand it from others though.
If my son is killed by a deer or a blown out tire, it provides me no relief to wish it had been a person I can collect money from.
I accept that risk and so does everyone else. Why can we not accept the same risk for uninsured drivers?
Yes, sorry, I was trying to be ironic - different sides of the pond, different rules.Diogenes wrote:Ha ha ha... not around here. Outside the City, and just north on the Ft. Sill range where the Deer and the Antelope play,(literally) there are Turkeys, Bobcats, Rattlesnakes, Buzzards, Buffalo, Longhorns, prairie dogs, and sometimes soldiers.mad_derek wrote:Ah, in that case we're quids in - the bl**dy aristocrats own all the deer so ...Diogenes wrote: Unless it is a deer who darted out in front of you...
My cousin was driving down the road one night when he hit a cow. I mentioned cows move pretty slow. Could he not see it? He says "it Darted out in front of me."
I just never visualized a cow as "Darting."
In general I agree with you, cows - who can see 'em move. But they can get up quite a pace when startled. My wife quite upset my son (who is learning to drive) when she said he needed to watch out for cows who might 'leap the fences' in front of him. I'm still a bit sceptical on that.
I have known the deer to do it though and contrary to my previous joke I have a deer living in my garden which I am responsible for if it happens to jump in front of someone's car ... another £M2.5 of personal liability I'm afraid.
Insanity Rules!
Insurance is to protect against risk. But when you have nothing you have nothing to lose. You can pass laws. All the laws you want. It will change very little. Although it may make you feel like you are protected you are not.EricF wrote:Because the deer or blown tire doesn't know any better. People do.Diogenes wrote:It misses the point. We can't demand that everyone else stay off the highway because we are afraid that they may injure us. We must accept the risk that we might get hurt badly, possibly killed, or worse, that someone will damage our pretty car and not pay us.EricF wrote: I dont see how this is a problem.
If my son is killed by a deer or a blown out tire, it provides me no relief to wish it had been a person I can collect money from.
I accept that risk and so does everyone else. Why can we not accept the same risk for uninsured drivers?
The man with nothing to lose will still be on the road. And the police will have a new excuse for preying on him. Fortunately there are never enough police. They are too busy chasing pot smokers to keep many "illegal" drivers off the road. Or to do much about real property crime or crimes of violence.
Did you know it is illegal to smoke pot and drive? From my experience every single pot smoker who can drive does it. The law is an illusion.We have little gods in legislatures and people who have faith in them. Touching.
The only people who need insurance are those with property.
Should I commit a tort - short of shooting me you will get no justice. Because I have nothing of value except what I know. You can demand justice all you want from me. You will not get it. Insurance laws will not change that fact of life. I have no need for insurance. I have nothing of value to protect.
If you want to protect your property - you buy insurance.
If you want justice - talk to God or get a gun.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
Isn't there an old saying from "Through the looking glass" about "It doesn't matter what you do as long as it is compulsory." ?mad_derek wrote:We don't have compulsory everything ... having said that, I agree with your general thrust.Diogenes wrote:You have compulsory everything in the UK. (except punishment for criminals.) Some folks refer to the UK as the "Nanny State."mad_derek wrote:Yes, well ... as ChrisMB has pointed out we have compulsory insurance in UK with tow and crush rules for non compliance. I've just looked at one of my policies and the limit for third party damages is £20,000,000 (and I do mean 20 million pounds) for a premium of £249.75 per annum - oh and my car is covered whatever happens (I'll leave you guys to do the currency conversions - if I do it it'll be wrong in five minutes).
There are those of us across the pond who are making efforts to prevent the US from going in the same direction. We have so far been fighting a rear guard action. We are looking for some Hope and Change come November though.