Welfare in action.

[BenTC]

Why was she buying cat food on the tax payer, but why didn't you challenge her on it?

It seemed to me the cat food didn't go on the welfare card "She also had cat food and some other stuff which she paid for in cash." That seemed rather dignified and comparatively proper usage of the card compared to the other two examples (though I'm not familiar with the details of the American welfare cards)

[seedload]

There again, you've got unpredictable folks with guns over there.

A regular shooting gallery. You can't talk to anyone without getting your head blown off in this country. But, since everyones gots there gats it's all good in the hood, yo. Usually when we both pull out our guns at the same time, we just back away and go about our business. Happens several times a day for me. But that is America for you. F'ing wild west over here. And with no healthcare to take care of all of our gunshot wounds, it can be pretty uncomfortable sometimes. Usually, we just use a hot iron to close the wound. Throw a few leaches on there and you are good to go. Anyway, have a nice day. I am off to the range - just cleaned my Uzi.

[chrismb]

you guys have all the fun. so unfair.

[jnaujok]

It seemed to me the cat food didn't go on the welfare card "She also had cat food and some other stuff which she paid for in cash." That seemed rather dignified and comparatively proper usage of the card compared to the other two examples (though I'm not familiar with the details of the American welfare cards)

There's no noble intentions there, the computerized checkout excludes those items from the Food Stamp eligible goods. In other words, the register knows you can't use your Uncle Sam Card to buy those items and forces you to pay cash.

That's why a lot of the mom & pop stores in welfare-heavy areas put certain alcoholic beverages under a simple "Beverage" heading, because then Food Stamps pay for them, which becomes a very lucrative draw for the mom & pop stores in those neighborhoods to gain money.

[doug l]

For all the discussion of taxation, welfare and tyranny and all that, I am a little surprised that so few have brought up the subject of "the Fair Tax". It seems, to someone like me who is interested in having as little interferrence from government in my daily life throughout the year, the 'pay as you go' sytem, ending the requirement to tuck my tail between my legs and beg for mercy from the IRS is much preferrable and makes even poverty itself a lot more bearable. Cheers.

[Carl White]

EDIT: nevermind. I should know better than to post about political issues.

[chrismb]

Now, let's just get a few things in perspective, as the background of this thread poses this perfectly:

In 1773 we taxed you guys a) on your sugar, b) on some printed materials and c) a revenue tax to pay for [some] local officials working in our Colonies (judges, govenors and the like).

And then you get all uppity about some tax on tea.

So let's just take a straw poll here - who would like to go back to a time when they are taxed only on sugar, printed materials and tea, and a bit extra to fund your local officials?.... or is it soooo important that you are taxed [into hell] by elected people instead who can waste that money on funding the salaries of [many many] officials in our Colonies?!!

Oh, what a screw-up! And no-one even remembers the dip-witted British prime minister/chancellor who was responsible: Lord North, ever heard of him? What a plonka, the first prime minster ever, in any country, to be outed by a vote of no confidence but not until he neatly caused all the innovators to end up your side, and all the inventors to stay here, and ne'er the twain shall mix, it seems.

[CaptainBeowulf]

Actually Chris, "we" (I'm British on my father's side) taxed them on a bit more than that. There were ridiculous taxes, like on how many closets or windows you had in your house.

And, when funds ran short, we ended up billeting some of the king's soldiers in people's houses - something rather sure to cause resentment.

But yeah, I think not only most Americans but most Britons and Canadians from 1775 would balk at the level of taxes we have in the North Atlantic countries now.

[Josh Cryer]

chrismb, don't get me wrong, I completely agree with a thrifty mentality, but not everyone is a communist like you or I, they are consumers. So if they get kicked out of their job and have to resort to assistance, they will keep on doing their basic consumer behavior.

So when I see other people getting 10 dollar a pound steak on their food stamp card (and these are affluent looking people that I have seen lately), I don't get all judgmental, as you are doing here.

I've seen news reports lately where people who used to shop at Whole Foods have had to start shopping at Wal-Mart and other thrifty stores. No more name brand stuff. They're learning, but it takes time to get off of old habits.

As far as violence is concerned, I'm sure that many people who are on welfare are in fact miscreants (the food stamp fraud people I have talked about certainly were violent-inclined individuals). But I have been seeing regular middle class type folk on them for the past 6 months. It's not the obese minorities one usually associates with them.

[Diogenes]

Diogenes, why didn't you just give them a piece of your mind. I would've, but then I'm not one of these reserved-type Brits. Are you??

While these people are taking advantage of the public teat, the real miscreants are the ones who let them do it. These people might possibly need the food, and it accomplishes nothing to humiliate them in front of others.

People around seemed to get far more embarrassed than I do about me telling someone in public they're an ignoramous (for whatever reason - last one was some bilthering dimwitted woman who, whilst I'm letting a car manoeuvre out of a space, wellies her car inbetween everything and creates gridlock).

There again, you've got unpredictable folks with guns over there. Choose your target, e.g. woman with cat. Why was she buying cat food on the tax payer, but why didn't you challenge her on it??

The woman buying cat food paid for it with cash, AFTER she paid for the human food with the welfare card. I find it irritatinng that someone who cannot even feed themsevles,, takes it upon themselves to feed a cat, but I put aside my irritation because I think Perhaps the woman aquired the cat during better times, and now has an obligation to it.

You can try to fix injustice where it exists, and/or go to those who controls it. I do both. Once done, you've done your duty to society and if everyone did that then it'd be a better place. If you do neither, you have no recourse for complaint. Have you written to your local representative about it, at least?

I must say that I feel sort of responsible. The state Representative who first proposed the Welfare credit card in our state got the idea from me. (as far as I can tell) While he was running for office (as a Democrat by the way) I talked to him about eliminating welfare fraud by creating a credit card with the recipients picture on it so that it cannot be used by anyone else. After he got elected he proposed the idea in the state legislature and it passed, Minus the Picture identification. (Of course!)

I must add that most of the Democrats in our state are pretty decent. They've got a few wrong ideas, but they are nothing like the National Democrats. Most of the Democrats in our state are more conservative than many Republicans. I know Several of them personally. (Elected officials that is.)

In any case, I DO talk to the politicians personnally, and I have shown up at their offices and events when I deem it necessary.

[Diogenes]

"excuse me, I notice you are on welfare so if it helps I can recommend the much cheaper shop just next door. that way you would end up spending less of the taxpayers money that helps out in these trying times you must be currently suffering with (you dimwit)"

for bad to flourish, the good merely have to say nowt. don't bother stating the issue if you're not bothered to do anything about it. be a sheep.

The first time it happened I wasn't sure. I saw her swipe the card and punch in the numbers (usually a giveaway for a welfare card) but in this case the glimpse I caught of the card didn't look right. It was brown, and the ones i'd seen up to that point were blue. I was just suspicious, but I couldn't be sure at that time. I also find it unlikely that the woman didn't know about the save-a-lot store a 1/2 block away because it's on a prominent road. I think she just didn't care.

It was only later when I got a better look at the cards used by the women at walmart that I realized it was the same type of card i'd seen at the other grocery store the day before. They had apparently changed the design since the last time I saw one.

Edit: (I found a picture of the New cards.)




In any case, hurting and humiliating these people would not have helped the cause of fisical sanity. If anything it would have provoked a backlash that might make reform all the harder. At least that is how I see it. I think the politicians are afraid to touch this issue, so until things get bad enough that people are willing to stand up and do something about it, it's going to remain an ongoing problem, and truthfully, it's not the worst problem we are facing.

[Diogenes]

EDIT: nevermind. I should know better than to post about political issues.

OH, Come on in ! The water's FINE !

[Diogenes]

Actually Chris, "we" (I'm British on my father's side) taxed them on a bit more than that. There were ridiculous taxes, like on how many closets or windows you had in your house.

And, when funds ran short, we ended up billeting some of the king's soldiers in people's houses - something rather sure to cause resentment.

But yeah, I think not only most Americans but most Britons and Canadians from 1775 would balk at the level of taxes we have in the North Atlantic countries now.

It wasn't just the taxation it was the officiousness.*

"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance."
(Declaration of Independence)







*(Marked by excessive eagerness in offering unwanted services or advice to others: )

[Diogenes]

There again, you've got unpredictable folks with guns over there.

A regular shooting gallery. You can't talk to anyone without getting your head blown off in this country. But, since everyones gots there gats it's all good in the hood, yo. Usually when we both pull out our guns at the same time, we just back away and go about our business. Happens several times a day for me. But that is America for you. F'ing wild west over here. And with no healthcare to take care of all of our gunshot wounds, it can be pretty uncomfortable sometimes. Usually, we just use a hot iron to close the wound. Throw a few leaches on there and you are good to go. Anyway, have a nice day. I am off to the range - just cleaned my Uzi.

It's funny. I'm in Seattle at the moment, and one of the guys I met today started talking to me about how his wife gave him a 9mm for Christmas, and he can't wait to strap it on and start carrying it around! (In Seattle Washington !) He says it's legal around here, but you dare not let anyone see it. I thought it was funny, because in Backwards Oklahoma, you have to go through a training program and get a license before you can carry a gun around. (By the way, I, and several of my Friends were instrumental in getting the concealed carry law passed in Oklahoma, and we worked with Democrats to do it! As a matter of fact, the Bills author was Democrat Senator Frank Shurden. )

[chrismb]

Rarely have I been so widely misundersood. Well, not since Sunday at least.

chrismb, don't get me wrong, I completely agree with a thrifty mentality, but not everyone is a communist like you or I

I'm only a communist on Fridays

they are consumers. So if they get kicked out of their job and have to resort to assistance, they will keep on doing their basic consumer behavior.

Hmmm... you've got a good point. If they all then turn up to the cheap-skate stores, then the queues will be longer where I shop.

So when I see other people getting 10 dollar a pound steak on their food stamp card (and these are affluent looking people that I have seen lately), I don't get all judgmental, as you are doing here.

Just hold them horses a mo. I'm not all judgemental here. I'm only judgemental 5 times a day and I had used them all up by the time I read that. I was critiqing Diogenese approach of not doing anything about it. I want to make it quite quite clear I am not at all judgemental towards dimwitted sponging unemployed layabout tax-dodging freeloaders. They are what they are.

No, sir, the critique was at Diogenes and now we have a much clearer picture of the motives of kicking off this thread. So the card was an idea from Diogenes? So this thread was nothing to do with a motive of irritation or annoyance over spending taxpayer$, it is all to do with GUILT!!! No, Diogenes, we will not give you absolution for your sins here!