Eat that GW believers!

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seedload
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Post by seedload »

UncleMatt wrote: Actually, the denial of man's influence on global climate change stems largely from a religious perspective on the right. To that group, only their invisible man in the sky has the power to alter or change things on a global scale. If they admit man is capable of that, then their whole house of cards based on blind faith starts to come tumbling down. If man can change the global climate, he may also be responsible for many things they want to attribute to their god.
It is so funny to read comments like this after reading posts by clear thinking people like jnaujok. People who go to the trouble to actually present the data that explains their well founded doubt. The detail and sources he provided are amazing... and not a single mention of God.

You, sir, are totally off base. The facts are coming in to the contrary of the theory and its associated hype. Skeptics are usually smart, brave, hard working people who are trying to take in the weight of the evidence and actually draw their own conclusions. To the debate they are adding a good bit of common sense which has previously been lacking.

Chalking it up to right wing radicalism is really a poorly constructed fallback position. No one here is clinging to guns and religion. Well maybe, but we aren't talking about it. Rather, we are presenting the argument. I have noticed that most AGW believers have stopped doing that. Instead, they say things like "the denial of man's influence on global climate change stems largely from a religious perspective on the right".

When presented with the fact that actual satellite evidence shows that feedbacks from increased CO2 actually seem to be negative they trot out the dumb-hick-right-wing-oil-company-sponsored-big-business-loving-religious-fanatic defense. It is bogus and they know it.

I mean, shit, if feedbacks are actually negative, then EVERY climate model is wrong. We can't actually talk about that can we? Your all God lovers! Take that.

No, the real deniers in this whole mess are those who aren't bothering to listen to the skeptics and aren't even looking at the evidence themselves. Rather, these deniers prefer to run around clinging to their hockey sticks and AGW demigods instead of actually paying attention.

Regards

UncleMatt
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Post by UncleMatt »

Betruger wrote:
UncleMatt wrote:
Betruger wrote:And then you do the exact mirror political thing.

Why just Greenland? I've avoided getting into climate change like the plague because the science is so displaced by politics and other ludicrous biasing pet peeves, but allow me a simple outsider question - Why just Greenland and not the whole planet? Why is that one location singled out as indicative of everything else?
If everything about GW deniers as you call em is so wrong, why don't you concisely point out clear absolute (assuming that's why you say it with such certainty) evidence for each point made here? Instead of drive-by ridicule.
No, I didn't do "the exact mirror political thing". I simply pointed out that MANY people adopt a point of view about global warming that is based on their politics, and not on science. Notice how I didn't say which political party has made a point of denying science, and which political party hasn't.

Here is more evidence that global warming is actually occurring, despite all the deniers:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121611.htm

Record High Temperatures Far Outpace Record Lows Across US
I didn't say anything about proper political parties. I said it was nowadays more about GWists versus anti-warmists in an entrenched and politicized fashion just as in proper politics. You didn't simply point out GW POVs based on national politics, nor just that there's "MANY people" who subscribe to anti-gw in the sense that there's many of em but called all of those right here on this forum not on your (global warmist) "party" as deniers (already halfway to assuming global warming is absolutely a foregone conclusion, which is a method you're supposed to denounce) and reduced their science, however mistaken it might be, to "BS".

From my outsider perspective this is just the type of attitude that pushes climate change discussions from productive debate to food fight between cliques.
When you accused me with this: "you do the exact mirror political thing", you were factually incorrect.

UncleMatt
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Post by UncleMatt »

seedload wrote:
UncleMatt wrote: Actually, the denial of man's influence on global climate change stems largely from a religious perspective on the right. To that group, only their invisible man in the sky has the power to alter or change things on a global scale. If they admit man is capable of that, then their whole house of cards based on blind faith starts to come tumbling down. If man can change the global climate, he may also be responsible for many things they want to attribute to their god.
It is so funny to read comments like this after reading posts by clear thinking people like jnaujok. People who go to the trouble to actually present the data that explains their well founded doubt. The detail and sources he provided are amazing... and not a single mention of God.

You, sir, are totally off base. The facts are coming in to the contrary of the theory and its associated hype. Skeptics are usually smart, brave, hard working people who are trying to take in the weight of the evidence and actually draw their own conclusions. To the debate they are adding a good bit of common sense which has previously been lacking.

Chalking it up to right wing radicalism is really a poorly constructed fallback position. No one here is clinging to guns and religion. Well maybe, but we aren't talking about it. Rather, we are presenting the argument. I have noticed that most AGW believers have stopped doing that. Instead, they say things like "the denial of man's influence on global climate change stems largely from a religious perspective on the right".

When presented with the fact that actual satellite evidence shows that feedbacks from increased CO2 actually seem to be negative they trot out the dumb-hick-right-wing-oil-company-sponsored-big-business-loving-religious-fanatic defense. It is bogus and they know it.

I mean, shit, if feedbacks are actually negative, then EVERY climate model is wrong. We can't actually talk about that can we? Your all God lovers! Take that.

No, the real deniers in this whole mess are those who aren't bothering to listen to the skeptics and aren't even looking at the evidence themselves. Rather, these deniers prefer to run around clinging to their hockey sticks and AGW demigods instead of actually paying attention.

Regards
I was responding to a poster who claimed I must be part of a "cult" to put any faith in the science that supports the conclusion that global warming is influenced by the activity of mankind. But I don't see you calling him on THAT, and wonder why the double standard?

I didn't just wake up one morning and decide to think that GW was caused by man, but that is exactly how GW deniers like to portray anyone who disagrees with them. I was presented with a multitude of evidence over many years before coming to that conclusion. Yet those that disagree with man made GW often resort to the tactic of saying "If you believe in GW, you simply MUST be part of a "cult". But if I dare suggest that the opposite is true, that religious and political "cults" on the right are those that deny GW, it suddenly isn't appropriate or valid???

If you want to villify me for saying right wing religion is responsible for so many GW deniers, why aren't you holding anyone else to the same standard? Why is it bad for me to suggest that religious people have a vested interest in denying GW, but its perfectly FINE if people who deny GW want to characterize those who disagree with them as belonging to a "cult"???

I am a registered independent, and have NO vested interest in promoting GW. I believe the evidence supports the conclusion that man is effecting world climate. If I am presented with evidence to the contrary, of course that is taken into consideration. But when people start saying I belong to a "cult" because of the conclusion I have reached, I will always feel free to defend against that level of stupidity and hypocrisy.

UncleMatt
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Post by UncleMatt »

TallDave wrote:
Actually, the denial of man's influence on global climate change stems largely from a religious perspective on the right. To that group, only their invisible man in the sky has the power to alter or change things on a global scale.
Actually, the belief in man's alleged influence on global climate stems largely from a religious perspective on the left. To that group pretty much anything Man is doing must be harmful to Mother Nature. That's why most of the AGWers (who are only 36% of the country as of the last poll) are also against nuclear energy. It's a religion; it doesn't have to make any kind of sense.
You can post all the veiled insults you want, act like I belong to a cult, that I think like an aborigine, or whatever else get you off.
Correlation isn't causation; cargo cults are built around that mistake. The aborigines eventually figured that out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

To spend trillions of dollars chasing a problem for which there is no good scientific evidence is the modern equivalent of a cargo cult. It's an enormous and unconscionable waste of resources. It makes everyone poorer.

The science is very, very bad, as has been proven in the thread. Like any religion, the whole thing proceeds largely on unquestioning faith.
Its called an ad hominem attack,
A righteous call to avoid ad hominems is a little more effective when it isn't deployed right after a series of ad hominems. Your first post called skeptics "deniers," connoting Holocaust denial, and questioned their motives. You then claimed many were driven by a religious delusion. Logically, you can't then complain when others respond in kind.
Wow, you got so many things wrong I hardly know where to start.

First of all, I would like you to quote the ad hominem argument you claim I posted. Now I did express a personal opinion about the relationship between GW deniers and their religion, but did not offer my evidence since it is from personal experience and not verifiable. Other than that, though, when I offered an opinion, I provided sources to support that opinion. That is hardly an "ad hominem" argument. I did not act as if I didn't need to present any evidence, I did not claim my opinion was default correct without providing evidence.

I am fully aware of the relationship between causation and correlation, but thanks so much for your condescension anyway. And you make many statements in your last post to me as if they were factual, but provide no evidence they are. You claim there is "no good scientific evidence" that GW is man made, yet we all know there is a HUGE amount of evidence that refutes your claim. You just don't want to acknowledge that evidence, because it doesn't support YOUR opinions on the matter. You say the science supporting man's influence on global climate is "very very bad", totally ignoring the majority of the scientific community that disagrees with you in the process. And yet you accuse ME of ad hominem reasoning?

And exactly what leftist religious perspective were you referring to when you claimed THAT was responsible for people thinking man made GW is real? Please be specific.
Last edited by UncleMatt on Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

First of all, I would like you to quote the ad hominem argument you claim I posted.
Seriously? You do know what ad hominem means, right? Literally, it is an "argument against the man."

The first thing you said was:
Its so hilarious how people try to pretend global warming isn't occurring, and/or politicize the issue to promote their personal political agenda.
That is an ad hominem attack on skeptics. If you're going to complain about ad hominems, you probably shouldn't start your first post with one.
I was responding to a poster who claimed I must be part of a "cult"
You don't seem to understand the distinction between "cargo cult" and "cult." Cargo cults mistake correlation for causality. AGW is a cargo cult phenomenon, because it is built around the assumption the correlation between modern temperatures and modern CO2 levels represents a cause/effect relationship in spite of conflicting evidence for such a relationship. This is something convenient for environmentalists to believe because it gives them a big stick with which to beat industry.
I am fully aware of the relationship between causation and causality
I think you mean correlation and causality.
And you make many statements in your last post to me as if they were factual, but provide no evidence they are.
There is a ton of evidence posted in the thread. You've ignored almost all of it.
You claim there is "no good scientific evidence" that GW is man made, yet we all know there is a HUGE amount of evidence that refutes your claim.
No, we don't. We know there are lots of people making this claim, but their "evidence" mostly consists of some bad computer models.
And exactly what leftist religious perspective were you referring to when you claimed THAT was responsible for people thinking man made GW is real?
Environmentalism. It's quasi-religious for many practitioners.

UncleMatt
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Post by UncleMatt »

TallDave wrote:
First of all, I would like you to quote the ad hominem argument you claim I posted.
Seriously? You do know what ad hominem means, right? Literally, it is an "argument against the man."

The first thing you said was:
Its so hilarious how people try to pretend global warming isn't occurring, and/or politicize the issue to promote their personal political agenda.
That is an ad hominem attack on skeptics. If you're going to complain about ad hominems, you probably shouldn't start your first post with one.
I was responding to a poster who claimed I must be part of a "cult"
You don't seem to understand the distinction between "cargo cult" and "cult." Cargo cults mistake correlation for causality. AGW is a cargo cult phenomenon, because it is built around the assumption the correlation between modern temperatures and modern CO2 levels represents a cause/effect relationship in spite of conflicting evidence for such a relationship. This is something convenient for environmentalists to believe because it gives them a big stick with which to beat industry.
I am fully aware of the relationship between causation and causality
I think you mean correlation and causality.
And you make many statements in your last post to me as if they were factual, but provide no evidence they are.
There is a ton of evidence posted in the thread. You've ignored almost all of it.
You claim there is "no good scientific evidence" that GW is man made, yet we all know there is a HUGE amount of evidence that refutes your claim.
No, we don't. We know there are lots of people making this claim, but their "evidence" mostly consists of some bad computer models.
And exactly what leftist religious perspective were you referring to when you claimed THAT was responsible for people thinking man made GW is real?
Environmentalism. It's quasi-religious for many practitioners.
No, the definition of an "ad hominem" argument is NOT what you state. Go look it up in the dictionary and educate yourself. When someone offers EVIDENCE, they are NOT presenting an ad hominem argument.

And it is pointless to continue arguing with you about this, since you refuse to acknowledge the evidence that support GW. You claim I have ignored all the evidence presented in this thread, but I haven't. It takes time to read and understand clearly these concepts, so I don't come to knee jerk conclusions because someone posts photos and links and calls it irrefutable evidence in a forum thread.

And I find it interewsting you want to say I am ignoring evidence, when you are doing exactly that yourself. There is overwhelming evidence man is effecting climate, but as soon as you can find something that says otherwise, you want to toss anything contrary to that out the window. Not everyone resorts to that tactic.

And I have news for you, being an environmentalist doesn't mean you have certain political beliefs, or are a cultist, or religious, or some kind of nutjob. THAT is how the people on the right try to characterize the situation in an attempt to promote their agenda. I am NOT a dem, or a liberal, and I STILL think man made GW is very real. Stating that environmentalism is a "quasi-religious" is dead wrong. There is MUCH more evidence that man made GW is real than there is supporting the idea an invisible man lives in the sky and runs a country club for dead people...

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Oh dear God, that is the literal translation of ad hominem.

ad hominem - (Latin) literally “to the man”; if two political candidates come together to debate an issue, but one of the two attacks his opponent instead of discussing the problem, that is described as an ad hominem attack; the focus of the speech would be on the person rather than on the topic at hand.
When someone offers EVIDENCE, they are NOT presenting an ad hominem argument.
Well, first off an attack is not the same as argument, and secondly whether you present evidence for an hominem attack has no bearing on whether you are making an ad hominem attack. You are confusing "ad hominem attack" with "ad hominem fallacy." For instance, if I say "John is a stupid Republican, therefore John's theory is wrong" that is the ad hominem fallacy. If I say "John is a stupid Republican because anyone can see his theory is wrong due to facts X and Y" that is still an ad hominem attack but does not commit the fallacy because the argument about his theory does not depend on any characteristic of John. If I say "John's theory is wrong because of fact X, fact Y, and the fact John is a stupid Republican" I am still making both an ad hominem argument and an ad hominem attack even thought I also offer additional evidence.
And it is pointless to continue arguing with you about this, since you refuse to acknowledge the evidence that support GW.
There doesn't seem to be any such evidence. You certainly haven't shown us any beyond a couple very unconvincing links which we've responded to. We posted lots of anti-AGW evidence, which you are apparently refusing to acknowledge.
And I have news for you, being an environmentalist doesn't mean you have certain political beliefs, or are a cultist, or religious, or some kind of nutjob.
Of course not. Lots of environmentalists are entirely rational about AGW. Like the Finnish enviros linked above.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Please provide the data you refer to and how it was computed from what proxy sources? I look forward to your referenced scientific paper on this subject. ....Show me your non regional information that takes in global averages over many locations and proxies or measurements.
Here's one: Trouet et al.

And here's a whole bunch more.


Yes, you couldn't name a job where investing money into it caused it to lose employees.
It costs everyone else jobs; it is that which is not seen. Bastiat put it nicely:

I. THE BROKEN WINDOW
Have you ever witnessed the anger of the good shopkeeper, James B., when his careless son happened to break a square of glass? If you have been present at such a scene, you will most assuredly bear witness to the fact, that every one of the spectators, were there even thirty of them, by common consent apparently, offered the unfortunate owner this invariable consolation - "It is an ill wind that blows nobody good. Everybody must live, and what would become of the glaziers if panes of glass were never broken?"

Now, this form of condolence contains an entire theory, which it will be well to show up in this simple case, seeing that it is precisely the same as that which, unhappily, regulates the greater part of our economical institutions.

Suppose it cost six francs to repair the damage, and you say that the accident brings six francs to the glazier's trade - that it encourages that trade to the amount of six francs - I grant it; I have not a word to say against it; you reason justly. The glazier comes, performs his task, receives his six francs, rubs his hands, and, in his heart, blesses the careless child. All this is that which is seen.

But if, on the other hand, you come to the conclusion, as is too often the case, that it is a good thing to break windows, that it causes money to circulate, and that the encouragement of industry in general will be the result of it, you will oblige me to call out, "Stop there! your theory is confined to that which is seen; it takes no account of that which is not seen."

It is not seen that as our shopkeeper has spent six francs upon one thing, he cannot spend them upon another. It is not seen that if he had not had a window to replace, he would, perhaps, have replaced his old shoes, or added another book to his library. In short, he would have employed his six francs in some way, which this accident has prevented.

Let us take a view of industry in general, as affected by this circumstance. The window being broken, the glazier's trade is encouraged to the amount of six francs; this is that which is seen. If the window had not been broken, the shoemaker's trade (or some other) would have been encouraged to the amount of six francs; this is that which is not seen.

And if that which is not seen is taken into consideration, because it is a negative fact, as well as that which is seen, because it is a positive fact, it will be understood that neither industry in general, nor the sum total of national labour, is affected, whether windows are broken or not.

Now let us consider James B. himself. In the former supposition, that of the window being broken, he spends six francs, and has neither more nor less than he had before, the enjoyment of a window.

In the second, where we suppose the window not to have been broken, he would have spent six francs on shoes, and would have had at the same time the enjoyment of a pair of shoes and of a window.

Now, as James B. forms a part of society, we must come to the conclusion, that, taking it altogether, and making an estimate of its enjoyments and its labours, it has lost the value of the broken window.

When we arrive at this unexpected conclusion: "Society loses the value of things which are uselessly destroyed;" and we must assent to a maxim which will make the hair of protectionists stand on end - To break, to spoil, to waste, is not to encourage national labour; or, more briefly, "destruction is not profit."

What will you say, Monsieur Industriel -- what will you say, disciples of good M. F. Chamans, who has calculated with so much precision how much trade would gain by the burning of Paris, from the number of houses it would be necessary to rebuild?

I am sorry to disturb these ingenious calculations, as far as their spirit has been introduced into our legislation; but I beg him to begin them again, by taking into the account that which is not seen, and placing it alongside of that which is seen. The reader must take care to remember that there are not two persons only, but three concerned in the little scene which I have submitted to his attention. One of them, James B., represents the consumer, reduced, by an act of destruction, to one enjoyment instead of two. Another under the title of the glazier, shows us the producer, whose trade is encouraged by the accident. The third is the shoemaker (or some other tradesman), whose labour suffers proportionably by the same cause. It is this third person who is always kept in the shade, and who, personating that which is not seen, is a necessary element of the problem. It is he who shows us how absurd it is to think we see a profit in an act of destruction. It is he who will soon teach us that it is not less absurd to see a profit in a restriction, which is, after all, nothing else than a partial destruction. Therefore, if you will only go to the root of all the arguments which are adduced in its favour, all you will find will be the paraphrase of this vulgar saying - What would become of the glaziers, if nobody ever broke windows?
Last edited by TallDave on Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Betruger
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Post by Betruger »

But when people start saying I belong to a "cult" because of the conclusion I have reached, I will always feel free to defend against that level of stupidity and hypocrisy.
:roll:
UncleMatt wrote:When you accused me with this: "you do the exact mirror political thing", you were factually incorrect.
Alright, I'm not going to play semantics with you. I said the above meaning that it was politicizing (i.e. typical political approach to non-political problem) and pointlessly polarizing. As rephrased in following posts. Now if you know what I meant and mean better than me, than sure, I was and probably am factually incorrect.
Over & out

Jccarlton
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Post by Jccarlton »

The way I look at the AGW scam is that the deniers always seem to have better data and analysis than the AGW cultists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM8rSSuJ_wQ

Where as the AGW cultists resort to scare tactics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0hHlxaYNb0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auTEWanR ... ature=fvwp
These guys always use bad computer models, bad data and fancy charts filled with untruths to forward and agenda that always seems to end up resulting in the enslavement and impoverishment of the majority of the population.

The fact is that the IPCC types and their friends have had an agenda even before anybody ever heard of AGW:
http://green-agenda.com/

This agenda is essentially
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/prog ... ology.html
following what Thomas Sowell calls the unconstrained vision:
http://fora.tv/2008/10/21/Uncommon_Know ... of_Visions

Unfortunately these visions have a very bad habit of ending up with totaltarian messes that get huge masses of people killed or starved to death. The fact is that the policies advocated by the AGW cult are the same ones thirty years ago advocated by the limits to growth crowd repackaged for a new crisis after resources didn't seem to be as limited as the limits cult expected and people were not as stupid as the limits cult thought. The solution are the same, be smaller, make do with less and conserve. The guilt trip is also the same. The cult even has indulgences.
Simply CO2 can't have much effect on the climate. CO2 only absorbs radiation on a very narrow band of the spectrum and that not on bands that correspond to high degrees of solar intensity:
http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html
It seems to me though without the code I can't check that the most of the climate models have a runaway positive feed back CO2 relationship(the so called forcing) with an almost linear CO2 temp relationship. In fact in one of Hansen's papers the CO2 coefficient was presented as a linear relationship. But a positive feed back loop can make the computer escape reality and do things like have more energy output than input, which given the results, the computer climate models seem to do.
Then there are the outright lies of the climate cultists:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?page= ... 1392962953
Count the number of digits on that billboard and think about it for a moment. Inconvenient Truths is only the beginning of the lies.

Jccarlton
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Post by Jccarlton »

If AGW were real would the Pols be choosing the policies they are choosing:
http://www.thecroc.org/?gclid=COWj3cz6x ... 5QodhhtUsQ
Amid the humor hides a golden truth; cap and trade does nothing to actually eliminate greenhouse gasses. Lets face it. If AGW were actually real rather than a method gaining rents from all of us for breathing and paying off the new aristocracy there are easier ways to deal with CO2 than wrecking the economy. You would use the theory of the largest gain for the the smallest cost. Rather than attacking things the greens don't like, like air travel, you would deal with underground coal fires which emit enormous amounts of CO2 and actually have negative economic consequences. You could also streamline nuclear plant construction and provide tax breaks for nuclear plants rather than windmills which actually increase the carbon load. You could give tax breaks to to big carbon emitters like cement plant when they use alternative methods of heating for their kilns. Above all you would pursue every way to make electricity less expensive so that people would use it instead of oil or gas to heat their homes. But that is not what our glorious leaders are actually doing is it? Tells us a lot about the reality of AGW and our elites.

seedload
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Post by seedload »

UncleMatt wrote: I was responding to a poster who claimed I must be part of a "cult" to put any faith in the science that supports the conclusion that global warming is influenced by the activity of mankind. But I don't see you calling him on THAT, and wonder why the double standard?
Well, he implied that you were a member of a cult, not that I was. I figured you could defend yourself.

You implied that I was probably a religious fanatic because of my opinion. That I choose to defend.

But, if you insist on hearing my opinion, I will say that I am not a big fan of the cult/AGW religion arguments. I find them pointless. I think that people who don't question the AGW claims are just misguided... not brainwashed in any real sense. Just superficial in their knowledge.
UncleMatt wrote:I didn't just wake up one morning and decide to think that GW was caused by man, but that is exactly how GW deniers like to portray anyone who disagrees with them. I was presented with a multitude of evidence over many years before coming to that conclusion. Yet those that disagree with man made GW often resort to the tactic of saying "If you believe in GW, you simply MUST be part of a "cult". But if I dare suggest that the opposite is true, that religious and political "cults" on the right are those that deny GW, it suddenly isn't appropriate or valid???
I don't think it is valid, no. Anyway, I am interested in reading more about the evidence that has convinced you. Specifically, I am really interested in any evidence for a causal relationship between CO2 and global temperature.

I read a lot of 'evidence' that is nothing more than support for the fact that it is getting warmer or theories about what will happen if it does get warmer. What I would be interested in is proof that CO2 is causing it to get warmer.

What I have found is that that kind of evidence is lacking. This is why it is so important for the Mann's and Hansen's of the world to insist that the current warming is unpresidented. It is as close as they can get to showing cause.
UncleMatt wrote:If you want to villify me for saying right wing religion is responsible for so many GW deniers, why aren't you holding anyone else to the same standard? Why is it bad for me to suggest that religious people have a vested interest in denying GW, but its perfectly FINE if people who deny GW want to characterize those who disagree with them as belonging to a "cult"???
Are you really serious? I suspect not. I find it hard to believe that you don't even recognize that the entire paragraph above applies to you - not me. Why aren't you holding yourself to your own standard. If you are offended by the cult generalization shouldn't you be offended by a generalization of your own. You argue that it is OK to retaliate with one but you fail to see that both are bad. Then you try to hold me accountable for not seeing that both are bad. Your logic is flawed.
UncleMatt wrote:I am a registered independent, and have NO vested interest in promoting GW. I believe the evidence supports the conclusion that man is effecting world climate. If I am presented with evidence to the contrary, of course that is taken into consideration. But when people start saying I belong to a "cult" because of the conclusion I have reached, I will always feel free to defend against that level of stupidity and hypocrisy.
Did you really just say that you will defend yourself against the implication that you are part of a 'cult' by implying that someone is a religious nut?

Is that a defense against hypocrisy or the definition of it?

93143
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Post by 93143 »

Jccarlton wrote:...you would pursue every way to make electricity less expensive so that people would use it instead of oil or gas to heat their homes.
Minor technical niggle: Using oil or gas in a furnace directly is vastly more carbon-efficient than using electricity generated at 40% thermal efficiency from a coal plant.

Now if your electricity is from hydro or nuclear it's another story, of course... except that hydro is tapped out and nuclear is regulated into the ground, so if demand goes up, what gets built?

IntLibber
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Post by IntLibber »

Jccarlton wrote:The way I look at the AGW scam is that the deniers always seem to have better data and analysis than the AGW cultists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM8rSSuJ_wQ
Lets please show some decorum. The word 'cult' connotes a lack of theological illegitimacy and kool-aid sipping kookiness. As we all know, belief in AGW has now been accorded the status of Religion by British courts, so it can no longer be referred to as a 'cult' except by intent to ad hominem. AGW is instead a religious faith, not a cult. AGW is not a single cult of personality, they have many saints and prophets, like any established and respectable religion.

I would propose that this policy be adopted by the board as standard for discussings referring to adherents to AGW theology.

Our Nobel Father Al
Who art flying the heavens
Smokey be thy business jet flames.
Thy Carbon Exchange come,
Thy Inconvenient Truth be done,
In the UN as it is in Copenhagen
Sell us this day, our daily carbon credits
and forgive us our emissions,
as we forgive those who emit against us.
And lead us not, into nuclear temptation,
but deliver us from denier evil, Almen

You may go forth and spread the Lords prayer amongst the heathens, in hopes it inspires them to come to the One True Faith, the Church of Global Warming.

Jccarlton
Posts: 1747
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: Southern Ct

Post by Jccarlton »

IntLibber wrote:
Jccarlton wrote:The way I look at the AGW scam is that the deniers always seem to have better data and analysis than the AGW cultists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM8rSSuJ_wQ
Lets please show some decorum. The word 'cult' connotes a lack of theological illegitimacy and kool-aid sipping kookiness. As we all know, belief in AGW has now been accorded the status of Religion by British courts, so it can no longer be referred to as a 'cult' except by intent to ad hominem. AGW is instead a religious faith, not a cult. AGW is not a single cult of personality, they have many saints and prophets, like any established and respectable religion.

I would propose that this policy be adopted by the board as standard for discussings referring to adherents to AGW theology.

Our Nobel Father Al
Who art flying the heavens
Smokey be thy business jet flames.
Thy Carbon Exchange come,
Thy Inconvenient Truth be done,
In the UN as it is in Copenhagen
Sell us this day, our daily carbon credits
and forgive us our emissions,
as we forgive those who emit against us.
And lead us not, into nuclear temptation,
but deliver us from denier evil, Almen

You may go forth and spread the Lords prayer amongst the heathens, in hopes it inspires them to come to the One True Faith, the Church of Global Warming.
I stand corrected. I forgot the unlike a cult which looks inward on itself when dealing with reality, the AGW types want to inflict their "truth" on us all.

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