Space Elevator Games with Prizes - $2Mil

[Aero]

Did anyone notice the space elevator competition? Seems like there are two prizes. One for the strongest rope, and another for good climbing speed. Looks like climb speed is power limited and I think the climber must provide its own power. That is, beamed power from the ground. Makes it harder.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200911 ... LUPG0.html

[krenshala]

well, if we can get a cable with the required strength, this looks like another use for a working polywell.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

I haven't checked on the Space Elevator Games in a while. I think 2004 or 5 was the last time I'd heard much on it. Glad to see its still going on, as researching multiple paths to orbit (as with fusion) is always a good thing.

[KitemanSA]

well, if we can get a cable with the required strength, this looks like another use for a working polywell.

The entry level "space elevator" (aka the hypersonic skyhook or the HASTOL) can be made beneficially now, with current materials. The only real problem is whether it can pay itself back before new technology makes it obsolete. And oh by the way, they need a nice, compact power source too. Polywell anyone?

[Aero]

They tested one climber yesterday but it didn't succeed. I don't have enough information to characterize their problems. Here is the link.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200911 ... UVCG0.html

[Professor Science]

Hypersonic sky hooks never made any sense to me, how do you keep a rotation body up there if you're using up some of it's momentum to take additional space ships up? I've been following space elevators for nearly a decade and the physics for how that's a sustainable system has always been straight forward.

[clonan]

Hypersonic sky hooks never made any sense to me, how do you keep a rotation body up there if you're using up some of it's momentum to take additional space ships up? I've been following space elevators for nearly a decade and the physics for how that's a sustainable system has always been straight forward.

I always loved the concept of the space elevator but I think the launch loop is more likley to be the heavy lifter of the future. It could be built much cheaper than any other system and the technology essentially exists now. One projection I saw was that a 10 year payback would cost $10/pound.

[Mumbles]

Hypersonic sky hooks never made any sense to me, how do you keep a rotation body up there if you're using up some of it's momentum to take additional space ships up?

The Skyhook concept includes a section of the tether that can be electrically energized (one way, with electrons emitted from one end resulting in a current flow), with a resultant push against the Earth's magnetic field to rebuild the momentum in the tether between launches. Same effect that an electric motor uses to generate force, just using the magnetic field available in the orbit the skyhook tether crosses.

That doesn't make the cargo attachment operation for a rotating tether any less dynamic...

A space elevator, since it rotates with the earth, would not be crossing magnetic field lines, and would not feel the same effect...

Be Safe
Mumbles

[KitemanSA]

Just to set the terminology,

A space elevator is a gravitationally stabilized tether with a lower end (i.e., Ground Track) velocity of Zero relative to Earth (or other body).

A rotovator is a rotating tether, typically considered to have a GTV of Zero relative to Earth

a "hypersonic skyhook" is gravitationally stablized tether with a hypersonic lower end GTV (exo-atmospheric obviously).

A HASTOL is a hypersonic rotovator.

Continue with your discussion!

By the way, a KITE (Kinetics Interchange TEther) launcer (KitemanSA, get it?)) is an endo-atmospheric tether.

[Aero]

There were some more attempts to climb the rope yesterday. One of the devices successfully climbed the rope quickly, though apparently not quite quickly enough for first prize. That's just from the news reports, exact timing might prove fast enough to contend for first prize and they clearly exceeded the second prize requirements.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200911 ... 2ERG0.html

[AcesHigh]

space elevator´s tethers (future ones) will supposedly be made of CARBON NANOTUBES, right?

And carbon nanotubes are know to be EXCELLENT electricity conductors, right?

why the hell do you need to power the climbers with LASERS then???

wouldnt it be easier to find a way to power them THROUGHT the cable itself?

also, what about wireless electricity?

[MSimon]

space elevator´s tethers (future ones) will supposedly be made of CARBON NANOTUBES, right?

And carbon nanotubes are know to be EXCELLENT electricity conductors, right?

why the hell do you need to power the climbers with LASERS then???

wouldnt it be easier to find a way to power them THROUGHT the cable itself?

also, what about wireless electricity?

You need TWO cables. And you need to keep them from separating or twisting. Beam power is probably a better bet.

Wireless? Well the higher the frequency the less the dispersion of a beam over distance. Light is high frequency wireless.

[pfrit]

space elevator´s tethers (future ones) will supposedly be made of CARBON NANOTUBES, right?

And carbon nanotubes are know to be EXCELLENT electricity conductors, right?

why the hell do you need to power the climbers with LASERS then???

wouldnt it be easier to find a way to power them THROUGHT the cable itself?

also, what about wireless electricity?

You need TWO cables. And you need to keep them from separating or twisting. Beam power is probably a better bet.

Wireless? Well the higher the frequency the less the dispersion of a beam over distance. Light is high frequency wireless.

Actually, nanotubes can be both insulators and conductors. Playing with their elecrical properties may affect their strength and weight, however. Regardless, the cable will have inevitably be charged because it will be passing through some very energetic areas, not to mention the static build up in the atmosphere.

[MSimon]

space elevator´s tethers (future ones) will supposedly be made of CARBON NANOTUBES, right?

And carbon nanotubes are know to be EXCELLENT electricity conductors, right?

why the hell do you need to power the climbers with LASERS then???

wouldnt it be easier to find a way to power them THROUGHT the cable itself?

also, what about wireless electricity?

You need TWO cables. And you need to keep them from separating or twisting. Beam power is probably a better bet.

Wireless? Well the higher the frequency the less the dispersion of a beam over distance. Light is high frequency wireless.

Actually, nanotubes can be both insulators and conductors. Playing with their elecrical properties may affect their strength and weight, however. Regardless, the cable will have inevitably be charged because it will be passing through some very energetic areas, not to mention the static build up in the atmosphere.

Yes and the dissipation of that charge will be part of the engineering work. Also making it capable of taking lightning hits.

[pfrit]

You need TWO cables. And you need to keep them from separating or twisting. Beam power is probably a better bet.

Wireless? Well the higher the frequency the less the dispersion of a beam over distance. Light is high frequency wireless.

Actually, nanotubes can be both insulators and conductors. Playing with their elecrical properties may affect their strength and weight, however. Regardless, the cable will have inevitably be charged because it will be passing through some very energetic areas, not to mention the static build up in the atmosphere.

Yes and the dissipation of that charge will be part of the engineering work. Also making it capable of taking lightning hits.

My issue with the charge is the ozone layer. If the cable is charged, the ozone will eat it to peices. Unavoidable. That means you will either have to keep to cable completely uncharged throught out the atmosphere or maintain a very small positive charge. You just can't make it out of material that would not react as that material does not exist. Hard too see it being done. Add in the mechanical stress of the climber and the negative aspects of failure (how to keep failure from being catastrophic), this is non-trivial engineering.

[MSimon]

It would be nice to have 20 ft of 1/4" line capable of towing an 18 wheeler in the boot of my vehicle. Not that towing an 18 wheeler is a good idea.