Electric Vehicle Charging Stations

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Aero
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Electric Vehicle Charging Stations

Post by Aero »

Just a thought. I don't think we need worry about EEStor, but how would it effect the EV charging station infrastructure if some company did develop an Ultra-Capacitor suitable for use as an energy storage device (battery) in electric vehicles? Wouldn't this device accept charge much faster than batteries so recharging would be limited by the charging station instead of the storage device?

And why haven't we heard about plans for charging stations to be put into the Mall and Wal-Mart parking lots? I'd think such parking lots would be ideal, because it is really, really hard to get in and out of Wal-Mart, for example, in a short time. Maybe they could be called "Topping Stations." Would that work? That is, do car batteries have charge memory like cell phone batteries do, or at least, did have?

These "Topping Stations" would serve the apartment dwellers and others who don't have a way to install a home charging station but still go shopping.
Aero

MirariNefas
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Post by MirariNefas »

Or you could just install outlets into the curbs of sidewalks, and place a little credit card reader. Slide your card, plug in your car, and maybe turn some latch in the plug which keeps people from maliciously unplugging you. You could put these anywhere. You could even build them into parking meters, and when the charge station reports that you've been there more than your allotted time, it'll instantly send a message to the parking meter guys. They'll click confirm, and a parking ticket will be billed straight to the credit card that you used when you plugged in.

pfrit
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Post by pfrit »

MirariNefas wrote:Or you could just install outlets into the curbs of sidewalks, and place a little credit card reader. Slide your card, plug in your car, and maybe turn some latch in the plug which keeps people from maliciously unplugging you. You could put these anywhere. You could even build them into parking meters, and when the charge station reports that you've been there more than your allotted time, it'll instantly send a message to the parking meter guys. They'll click confirm, and a parking ticket will be billed straight to the credit card that you used when you plugged in.
I am told that this is done in alaska, but that the electricity was (perhaps not anymore) free. For block warmers. They are there on the off chance that you may want to move your car before spring.
What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.

MirariNefas
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Post by MirariNefas »

I've heard of that. I can't imagine why it's free though.

Oh wait, the oil thing. Yeah, they've got some cash to burn.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

MirariNefas wrote:I've heard of that. I can't imagine why it's free though.

Oh wait, the oil thing. Yeah, they've got some cash to burn.
Taxpayers without autos pay fewer taxes. And a block heater takes less than 200 W. If you have to feed a parking meter, 50 cents an hour should do it.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MirariNefas
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Post by MirariNefas »

There's also the installation cost for the outlet, and the bums who use it steal electricity.

It should be left up to the free market. If 50 cents an hour is profitable, then that's great, and I'm sure no one would balk at paying.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

MirariNefas wrote:There's also the installation cost for the outlet, and the bums who use it steal electricity.

It should be left up to the free market. If 50 cents an hour is profitable, then that's great, and I'm sure no one would balk at paying.
Well sure. In a perfect world. Know where I can find one?

And then there is the problem of competition. It doesn't pay to have three different "power" companies at each parking spot. You have to franchise the operation.

Some problems are so small that they don't warrant fighting about. And the problem is local to Alaska. Let them fix it in a manner that seems most convenient to them.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MirariNefas
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Post by MirariNefas »

Some problems are so small that they don't warrant fighting about.
Then why are you bothering me?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

MirariNefas wrote:
Some problems are so small that they don't warrant fighting about.
Then why are you bothering?
And I was here long before you arrived. In fact I was here before there was a here.

A 100 W per car warming outlet is not very significant compared to a 1 to 5KW charging station.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Folks,

There are two issues here, energy and power.

I am pretty sure there are companies out there that would be willing to set up charging stations and give you free energy if you allow them to use the batteries in your vehicle as a frequency control power source. The sale of this very short term power is a BIG business and earns the providers huge rates per kWh.

They give you cumulative energy over the work day, you give them instantaeous power control minute by minute. Good deal all around, unless it prematurely ages your battery.

However, with these supercapacitor type storage units that ask for several kWh in a couple minutes, the cost will be the power, not the energy.

MirariNefas
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Post by MirariNefas »

MSimon wrote:
MirariNefas wrote:
Some problems are so small that they don't warrant fighting about.
Then why are you bothering?
And I was here long before you arrived. In fact I was here before there was a here.
Relevant? No.
A 100 W per car warming outlet is not very significant compared to a 1 to 5KW charging station.
Funny inconsistent numbers.

MSimon, this isn't even a worthwhile debate. Why are you so easily provoked?
Last edited by MirariNefas on Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MirariNefas
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Post by MirariNefas »

KitemanSA wrote:Folks,

There are two issues here, energy and power.

I am pretty sure there are companies out there that would be willing to set up charging stations and give you free energy if you allow them to use the batteries in your vehicle as a frequency control power source. The sale of this very short term power is a BIG business and earns the providers huge rates per kWh.

They give you cumulative energy over the work day, you give them instantaeous power control minute by minute. Good deal all around, unless it prematurely ages your battery.
Interesting possibility.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Beacon Power, the developers of high-tech flywheel energy storage systems has "Frequency Regulation" as their primary business plan right now.

I suspect that if very rapid charge rate EVs get built, the big business for Beacon Power and their competators will be to soak up energy slowly across the hours and provide it in few-minute bursts to cars at filling stations. But only if these "2 minute charge" systems actually happen.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Why are you so easily provoked?
It is my nature.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

pfrit
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Post by pfrit »

MSimon wrote:
Why are you so easily provoked?
It is my nature.
Are you sure it isn't your nuture? :)
What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.

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