Healthcare & rationing

Discuss life, the universe, and everything with other members of this site. Get to know your fellow polywell enthusiasts.

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Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Link was used by TallDave for his argumentation, so I suppose it is fair to use the same link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car ... ted_States
From there you can follow up to the other pages.
This might also be of interest.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_wor ... ranks.html

Also, I want to point out the interesting circumstance, that the US has less doctors (per 1000 inhabitants) than eg. Austria. The US has (2.4 versus 3.4 if I remember correctly). That is a whole lot less. Now please explain to me why a system with less physicians per capita is better than a system with more. Or how coverage and response can be better in a system with less physicians. I am all ears.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_compared

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Msimon, I am glad to hear that you are happy with your life and your choices and ready to die at the age of 65 (only slightly older than my father, who I hope will live for a few more decades or so ;) ). I am not, I am only 34 and I still have to procreate to fullfill my duty and contribute to the genepool of the next generation. I also want and see my children grow up and maybe even my grandchildren. So I am sorry, but I cant share your feelings here.

choff
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:02 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by choff »

I was looking at a Bill Moyers documentary on TV last night, they ended it saying the US health insurance industry is assured greater profitability no matter what passes through congress, also the leader of the drug lobby has been assured that all generic drugs from outside the US will be banned.

If none of the special interest groups (drug companies/lawyers/insurers) loses, and 47 million additional people get coverage, I would expect that the percentage of GDP spending on health care could actually rise! That would be a totally different outcome than with any other country with public health care.
CHoff

gblaze42
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Post by gblaze42 »

Skipjack wrote:Unequal outcomes are OK, unequal opportunities are not.
Umm That would be called "Life". Opportunities are made not given.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Shrug. The WHO rankings do not measure the quality of care.
WHO’s assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system’s financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).
I am very proud we are not ranked highly in terms of socialism.

Still haven't seen any actual measures by which our care is inferior.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Hmmm, the equal opportunities. I for one belong to the camp that say:
No, people are not the same at birth. They are born with differing genes and therefore differing capabilities. They do deserve equal rights at birth however and they should by treated equally by the law. I also think that offering everyone equal oportunities is beneficial for society. Some genius might otherwise never the chance to an good education or sufficient health to fullfill his full potential. People that are working below their potential are inefficient. Inefficient people are bad for society.
Thats just my personal POV though.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Now please explain to me why a system with less physicians per capita is better than a system with more. Or how coverage and response can be better in a system with less physicians. I am all ears.
Better doctors, more nurses.

Somehow our doctors managed to do twice as many transplants per capita and achieve better cancer survival rates. Maybe they just work harder. Possibly because they're paid a lot more.

More chefs doesn't always mean better stew.

gblaze42
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Post by gblaze42 »

Skipjack wrote:It is just really strange to me.
According to you, only the libertarian US citizens know what is best. You are the only ones who know everything about healthcare and what works and what does not. Everyone else in the world is wrong. Even the people in your own country, the majority of which is for at least an improvement to the healthcare system (and I am not saying that this has to be socialized healthcare, just an improvement and more fairness and rules), are wrong according to you.
It does happen quite rarely that a minority is right and a majority is wrong. I am just not so sure, whether this is the case this time.
I just hope you dont have a bad wake up moment, when you are 55 and left without health insurance (because no insurance company will take you anymore) and no way to pay your health care bills, which will rise with age...
See this is what causes so much trouble. the only way you will ever get a real understanding of whats going on "here" is to actually experience it. Your getting what appears to be a very skewed understanding of the US. Your talking more about what is said in the News than what actually is happening.

And i know you don't realize it, but from vantage point, by what you say and how you say it, it's you who seems to know so much of what the US really needs and yet you don't even live here.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Still haven't seen any actual measures by which our care is inferior.
How about the number of physicians per 1000 inhabitants?
That a measure you accept?

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Skipjack wrote:
Still haven't seen any actual measures by which our care is inferior.
How about the number of physicians per 1000 inhabitants?
That a measure you accept?
Already addressed that one.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Better doctors, more nurses.
You are not seriously going to claim that your doctors are better than ours?
That is ridiculous! But please, show me the statistic that says that yours are better.
Transplants per capita dont count. As you put it, we might simply need less of those due to differing diets and aspects of life, HA!

Gblaze, I have spent 9 months in the US so far (not in one piece), my wife is a US citizen.
Last edited by Skipjack on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gblaze42
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:04 pm

Post by gblaze42 »

Skipjack wrote:Hmmm, the equal opportunities. I for one belong to the camp that say:
No, people are not the same at birth. They are born with differing genes and therefore differing capabilities. They do deserve equal rights at birth however and they should by treated equally by the law. I also think that offering everyone equal oportunities is beneficial for society. Some genius might otherwise never the chance to an good education or sufficient health to fullfill his full potential. People that are working below their potential are inefficient. Inefficient people are bad for society.
Thats just my personal POV though.
Very few people in the world, no less than the US attain their full potential, and if they do, not for long.

I'm more of the camp that says, "If you want something bad enough , you find away to do it, or don't complain about it"
Last edited by gblaze42 on Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

So you dont think that e.g. equally good education is important?
What if Hawking never had the oportunity to go to college?

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

You are not seriously going to claim that your doctors are better than ours?
I think I already proved that. I'm guessing our nurses are better, too.
But please, show me the statistic that says that yours are better
I've already posted several.
Transplants per capita dont count. As you put it, we might simply need less of those
Ha, not twice as few. Face it, you just can't afford them. We can.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Skipjack wrote:So you dont think that e.g. equally good education is important?
What if Hawking never had the oportunity to go to college?
He could get a merit scholarship.

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