Which design will be the first to break even?

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Which concept will lead to the first successful commercial fusion reactor?

The Bussard Fusion Reactor (a polywell based design)
6
40%
A Tokamak based-approach (ITER, MAST, etc.)
2
13%
General Fusion's Approach (What category does this fall under?)
0
No votes
Laser Inertial Devices
1
7%
Other (Please elaborate in your reply.)
6
40%
 
Total votes: 15

joedead
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:31 pm
Location: Manhattan, NY

Which design will be the first to break even?

Post by joedead »

That is, which will lead to a net power reactor first?

:?:



Mods, feel free to add to/edit the poll as you see fit.

Helius
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:48 pm
Location: Syracuse, New York

Post by Helius »

A fission / Fusion hybrid.

Torulf2
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: Swedem

Post by Torulf2 »

Maybe a Laser Inertial Devices but the Sadia Z machine is a good candidate.

joedead
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:31 pm
Location: Manhattan, NY

Post by joedead »

Over 100 views and only 9 votes. Was this a dumb idea for a poll?

pstudier
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:37 pm

Post by pstudier »

joedead wrote:Over 100 views and only 9 votes. Was this a dumb idea for a poll?
Well, there should have been an option for fusion never to be commercially successful.
Fusion is easy, but break even is horrendous.

Roger
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:03 am
Location: Metro NY

Post by Roger »

Didnt a Tokamak already go to net power?

I mean come on, the question is who is going to be second to net power?


>grumble, whine, complain>
I like the p-B11 resonance peak at 50 KV acceleration. In2 years we'll know.

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

It will be a closed orbit, highly velocity-resonant device that can maintain and recover scattered ions back into a tight region of phase-space.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

Not to be TOO picky, but your subject line and your question were TOTALLY different, leading to a cognative diss... oh heck, it were confusing.

What did you REALLY want to ask? :wink:

joedead
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:31 pm
Location: Manhattan, NY

Post by joedead »

Not to be TOO picky, but your subject line and your question were TOTALLY different, leading to a cognative diss... oh heck, it were confusing.

What did you REALLY want to ask?
LOL, good point. I guess I'd like to ask... both!

But for the sake of the poll, I guess I'm most interested in seeing which design people think will lead to successful commercialization of fusion power.

(Although I'm just as interested in which one will break even or achieve net power first. Is that even stated correctly?)

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

Why do you wish to discount the tokamak, then?

General Atomics/Boeing have been making money out of tokamaks for years with their Starlite/ARIES/DIII-D programmes, or do you think they were doing it for the benefit of mankind or something??? Are there other examples?

Fusion power has already been commercialised! It's currently a research(/useless??) product, but it has been commercialised.

If you were to try to refine your question to 'the first watts of grid-power converted from fusion energy' then I would refer you to whoever first sold solar panels!

Ah! The joys of clarifying ambiguous questions!

Skipjack
Posts: 6051
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Ooops, I actually voted without rereading the question.
I voted in response to the headline. What a mean trick!
:twisted:

From all that I know the JET had break even by calculation. Just for a very short period of time. Dont ask me numbers, its been what? 20 years?. Oh, hehe I remember also, that back then as it is today, commercial fusion was 30 years away...

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

Skipjack wrote: From all that I know the JET had break even by calculation. Just for a very short period of time. Dont ask me numbers, its been what? 20 years?. Oh, hehe I remember also, that back then as it is today, commercial fusion was 30 years away...
That is the claim. Though plenty of ways to debate it.

I can limit input into a capacitor to 1 watt, yet get megawatts out of it. Is this a Q=>1E6 device?? I think not.

JET's magnetic fields consume ~1GJ to energise, whereas the total energy output in its best run was about 22MJ I think. Sure, if the thing could be run continuously, the 1GJ 'investment' in energising the field would eventually be paid back, but not in the unit-seconds that tokamaks actually push neutrons out.

...and no-one's been counting all the ancillary parts, so 'net-power system output', no.

alexjrgreen
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: UK

Post by alexjrgreen »

Helius wrote:A fission / Fusion hybrid.
Los Alamos have this cracked already...

Use the pressure to push water up a mountain and you have net power.

Like this only bigger:
http://www.fhc.co.uk/dinorwig.htm
Ars artis est celare artem.

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Post by chrismb »

alexjrgreen wrote: Like this only bigger:
http://www.fhc.co.uk/dinorwig.htm
Have you ever visited Dinorwig? They do tours. It is, truly, almost unbelievable. Imagine cutting a big hole into the centre of a mountain, then building a cathedral half a mile inside it.

....

Probably a bigger cathedral than you're imagining!!

Now dig another hole out of the mountain next to it, the length of a football pitch, plus grandstands.

Now drill a hole connecting a lower and upper reservoir....a 30m diameter drill...and put a half-gigawatt motor/generator set in it.

Well worth a visit. Engineering at its best....

alexjrgreen
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: UK

Post by alexjrgreen »

chrismb wrote:
alexjrgreen wrote: Like this only bigger:
http://www.fhc.co.uk/dinorwig.htm
Have you ever visited Dinorwig?
It wasn't finished last time I was there.
chrismb wrote:They do tours.
The Electric Mountain part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ho2yCvOXo

The Electric Mountain part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VONAYCsLRc
Ars artis est celare artem.

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