Princeton Fusion Project Gets $390 Million

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MSimon
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Princeton Fusion Project Gets $390 Million

Post by MSimon »

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http://www.centraljersey.com/articles/2 ... 895254.txt


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The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) on Thursday announced the award of a new contract valued at $390 million to Princeton University for the management and operation of the DOE’s Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory (PPPL), a collaborative national center for plasma and fusion science located in Plainsboro.

According to a DOE release, the contract is a cost-plus, award-fee contract for five years, with an award term provision under which Princeton can earn up to five additional years of contract term. The base performance period of the contract will be from April 1, 2009 through March 31, 2014. A 60-day transition period will begin in January 2009.

Based on current funding, the five-year base term of the contract is valued at approximately $390 million, according to the DOE. Under the agreement, Princeton University can earn an award fee of up to $1.8 million each year.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

It was either that or shut it down, I guess.

I remain hopeful Obama will push for funding small fusion projects like Polywell.

Heck, he's throwing a couple trillion out there.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

I'm not hopeful at all.

Look at what he is doing to the auto industry:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... ustry.html

If Polywell worked it would destroy most of the market for wind and solar. The project will limp along on Navy funding.

I think we will find that this administration is even less rational than Bush's, more driven by politics. Politics always favors the incumbents over the challengers.

There will come a day - in about a year to 18 months when people will long for a return of Bush. There is an air of unreality in Washington that will come back to bite them.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

kurt9
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Post by kurt9 »

MSimon wrote:I'm not hopeful at all.

Look at what he is doing to the auto industry:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... ustry.html
With regards to bailing out industries, whats the old expression about "free" money always having strings attached.

What the government giveth, the government can always taketh away.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

kurt9 wrote: With regards to bailing out industries, whats the old expression about "free" money always having strings attached.
What the government giveth, the government can always taketh away.
"Free" money that businesses get from government is not unlike the "free" endorphines that new heroine users get from their pushers.

Hey GM, can I interest you in a dime bag here?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

KitemanSA wrote:
kurt9 wrote: With regards to bailing out industries, whats the old expression about "free" money always having strings attached.
What the government giveth, the government can always taketh away.
"Free" money that businesses get from government is not unlike the "free" endorphines that new heroine users get from their pushers.

Hey GM, can I interest you in a dime bag here?
The deal is that if the government quit trying to control the heroin business a $10 bag would cost 10 cents.

i.e. government screws up what ever it touches.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Robthebob
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Post by Robthebob »

MSimon wrote:I'm not hopeful at all.

Look at what he is doing to the auto industry:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/200 ... ustry.html

If Polywell worked it would destroy most of the market for wind and solar. The project will limp along on Navy funding.

I think we will find that this administration is even less rational than Bush's, more driven by politics. Politics always favors the incumbents over the challengers.

There will come a day - in about a year to 18 months when people will long for a return of Bush. There is an air of unreality in Washington that will come back to bite them.
Oh I doubt that, I dont know if people really would get jealous or not, but if polywell get's good results fast enough, as in before they spend too much money on wind and solar, then they could just redirect the money to polywell, oh wouldnt that be a dream come true? I doubt any president can lay out the ground work for any major industry, like wind and solar, as Obama described in 4 years, maybe in 8, so we still have some time. :P

What I dont like about Obama is his faith in these small and almost without a doubt deadend means of energy production. Sure solar and wind is good, but I mean unless they make some really epic break through, which when compared to a break through in polywell or even magnetic confinement, wow, it's way harder to achieve. Only with some form of really impressive break through, would solar and wind not cost so much money, which in turn, require the plants to be generating energy for like 30 years to generate enough profit to break even with the starting cost.

We all know energy of the atom is the way to go, not geo physical, not chemical, not second hand nuclear fusion, lolz.
Throwing my life away for this whole Fusion mess.

Art Carlson
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Post by Art Carlson »

Robthebob wrote:We all know energy of the atom is the way to go, not geo physical, not chemical, not second hand nuclear fusion, lolz.
How do you measure the ease of a breakthrough that hasn't occurred yet?

How do you know that we have a choice but to pay through the nose for energy? It doesn't take much imagination to suppose that no form of fusion will ever be as cheap as, say, off-shore wind or desert-solar-thermal-electricity. Anything that "we all know" should be held at arms length and examined very carefully.

And if you don't want to be constrained by reality, why not go straight to black holes? They are much more efficient at converting matter into energy than fusion.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Art Carlson wrote:
Robthebob wrote:We all know energy of the atom is the way to go, not geo physical, not chemical, not second hand nuclear fusion, lolz.
How do you measure the ease of a breakthrough that hasn't occurred yet?

How do you know that we have a choice but to pay through the nose for energy? It doesn't take much imagination to suppose that no form of fusion will ever be as cheap as, say, off-shore wind or desert-solar-thermal-electricity. Anything that "we all know" should be held at arms length and examined very carefully.

And if you don't want to be constrained by reality, why not go straight to black holes? They are much more efficient at converting matter into energy than fusion.
Art, he didn't SAY fusion, he said the energy of the atom. Fission is already cheaper than the others mentioned, it is just not PC.

Art Carlson
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Post by Art Carlson »

KitemanSA wrote:
Art Carlson wrote:
Robthebob wrote:We all know energy of the atom is the way to go, not geo physical, not chemical, not second hand nuclear fusion, lolz.
How do you measure the ease of a breakthrough that hasn't occurred yet?

How do you know that we have a choice but to pay through the nose for energy? It doesn't take much imagination to suppose that no form of fusion will ever be as cheap as, say, off-shore wind or desert-solar-thermal-electricity. Anything that "we all know" should be held at arms length and examined very carefully.

And if you don't want to be constrained by reality, why not go straight to black holes? They are much more efficient at converting matter into energy than fusion.
Art, he didn't SAY fusion, he said the energy of the atom. Fission is already cheaper than the others mentioned, it is just not PC.
Your point. I actually meant to mention that parenthetically. Now whether a fission economy is a good idea or not is another thread, but it's technically mature and - on the TWe scale - is much cheaper than any renewable source.

Robthebob
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Post by Robthebob »

I see I just trolled by Art Carlson, that's okay tho, seems like everyone on this forum, one time or another, will catch the attention of Art.
Throwing my life away for this whole Fusion mess.

FutureMan
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Post by FutureMan »

Man, I use to love to read your blog msimon about energy and so forth, but it has decended lately into a paranoid anti-obama rant page, it is really sad.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

FutureMan wrote:Man, I use to love to read your blog msimon about energy and so forth, but it has decended lately into a paranoid anti-obama rant page, it is really sad.
It is just politics. I have my point of view. I express it.

In any case it is obvious to me that The Smartest President Ever hasn't a clue. It will become obvious to others as time passes.

But you kow - just skip the Obama rants. Or skip the blog. As long as it is still a free country I intend to express my opinion.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

JoeStrout
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Post by JoeStrout »

MSimon wrote:Look at what he is doing to the auto industry
Yes, finally! An administration that will do what's right for the country (national security) and world (climate) rather than what's right for the oil industry.
MSimon wrote:If Polywell worked it would destroy most of the market for wind and solar.
True. Till then, it's sensible to invest in a balanced portfolio of energy technologies (just as the Obama administration is doing).
MSimon wrote:I think we will find that this administration is even less rational than Bush's, more driven by politics.
I don't know what you're smoking. The Bush administration politicized and interfered with the rational functioning of every facet of government, from the district attorneys to scientific research. The suppression and distortion of the truth by Bush was far worse than with any other president in American history. I'm not saying this because he's a republican; so was Bush Sr., Reagan, and many other fine Presidents. But Bush was a tyrant, a divider, and showed again and again that he saw science as useful only when it supported his political aims, and when it did not, it was an obstacle to be suppressed and overcome through political power.

Obama, on the other hand, has shown a clear rationality. While not a scientist himself, his scientific appointments are widely lauded. Widely respected scientists are calling the difference between the previous environment and the current one "like night and day."

The case against Bush is overwhelming and clear. Anybody who still thinks Bush was anything other than a lying, dishonest, enemy of science and rationality should take a good, long look in the mirror — because they're denying the facts themselves. The degree of doublethink (or ignorance, but that's probably not the problem in this forum) required to honestly support Bush after all he's done is astounding.
MSimon wrote:There will come a day - in about a year to 18 months when people will long for a return of Bush. There is an air of unreality in Washington that will come back to bite them.
No, there will never come such a day. He will go down in history as the worst President ever, far worse than Nixon, and (hopefully) serve as a cautionary tale that will continue to guide us in selecting men and women who will do a good job, rather than only those who will continue the good fight against monogamous gays and stem cells (or whatever one's pet issue may be).

And that air of unreality you sense? That's because, for the first time in many years, there are those in Washington that are really working to do the right thing, without cronyism, without paying back the big corporate donors who put them in office, and with a surprising amount of bipartisanship. That's "honest government" you're sensing, and it seems unreal only because we've gotten so used to the other kind.
Joe Strout
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JoeStrout
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Post by JoeStrout »

MSimon wrote:But you kow - just skip the Obama rants. Or skip the blog. As long as it is still a free country I intend to express my opinion.
I do skip your blog, but then you go and post it here (in the News forum, no less).

I've moved the thread over to General, where it belongs, but I'd rather you just keep your amazing political views to your own blog, where we can easily ignore them. They certainly don't belong in the News forum.

Thanks,
- Joe
Joe Strout
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