Family Loses House Because Of Global Warming

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MSimon
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Family Loses House Because Of Global Warming

Post by MSimon »

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090125/ap_ ... olden_dams

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XIAOXI, China – The hydroelectric dam, a low wall of concrete slicing across an old farming valley, is supposed to help a power company in distant Germany contribute to saving the climate — while putting lucrative "carbon credits" into the pockets of Chinese developers.

But in the end the new Xiaoxi dam may do nothing to lower global-warming emissions as advertised. And many of the 7,500 people displaced by the project still seethe over losing their homes and farmland.

"Nobody asked if we wanted to move," said a 38-year-old man whose family lost a small brick house. "The government just posted a notice that said, 'Your home will be demolished.'"
There is nothing like a government that can just give orders and get things done. That is true leadership. I think it is called the Führerprinzip in German. Perhaps it sounds better in Chinese.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

hanelyp
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Post by hanelyp »

Sounds like the kind of power some of us fear Obama and company want.

kurt9
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Post by kurt9 »

Is it not likely that the dam would have been built regardless of AWG?

I don't believe in AWG, but I don't think this one can be blamed on it.

Helius
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Post by Helius »

hanelyp wrote:Sounds like the kind of power some of us fear Obama and company want.
Yes. Except here, it'd be windmills. Woosh, woosh, woosh. Graaank! Graank, Graank!. Countryside ruined. Rolling blackouts will be our norm.

It looks good to some. Denmark gets 20% of their power from wind. MMMM. nice summer breezes.

Forget that Denmark can level the vagaries of the wind with Norwegian Hydropower.

France gets nearly 80% of it's electrical power from 3rd generation Nukes. It's power is the cheapest in Europe. It's a net exporter of Electricity to Germany, Italy... I wouldn't be surprised if Denmark uses French power. The "experiment" is in front of us.

The right direction seems obvious. Why are we Americans blind? What the heck is going on?

Mr Obama: Wind? Are you serious?

zbarlici
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Post by zbarlici »

wow... Global warming takes its toll and displaces families without even rising the seas... i couldn`t help but snicker as i had imagined that the first victims woud be those on beaches, or those in arid areas...

JohnSmith
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Post by JohnSmith »

Hydro power is the sanest, cleanest power in the world. No waste, no storage problems, completely renewable. Yes, it sucks that people lost their homes, but that's a governmental problem, nothing to do with AWG or hydro power. The US already gets a fair percentage of it's power from hydro, since that's how BC and Ontario produce most of their power, and the US buys it.

Wind power:Blah Blah Blah, contryside ruined, end of the world, power outages that kill millions.
Waste of money? Probably. End of the world? Not so much. Give it a break. Worst case, you'll be buying more power from us up here in Canada while you build new nuke plants, not starving in the cold.
( :P Obviously I don't have any problems with this plan...)

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

I don't know how GW got into this story!

China has always gone in for major industrialisation projects regardless of the views of those affected. Hydro, though disruptive, is at least what it says on the can. Lots of electricity, and fairly cheap.

At least it does not contribute to the amazing smog that surrounds many Chinese cities and that cheap coal-fired stations (the alternative) would help create.

This decision would have been made regardless of GW.

Best wishes, Tom

IntLibber
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Post by IntLibber »

hanelyp wrote:Sounds like the kind of power some of us fear Obama and company want.
This sort of eminent domain is common in the US. Anybody who has scuba dived in non-canyon hydroelectric lakes can testify to the towns submerged by the rising waters. Quabbin reservoir is one example, as is the Tennessee Valley Authority, among many others.

When farmers put up objections to windfarms on their pastures, their land WILL be taken. Domestic cattle are not an endangers species like Gila Monsters and other desert dwellers are. Wind farms on the prairies are environmentally easier to accomplish than solar power in the desert.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

IntLibber wrote:
hanelyp wrote:Sounds like the kind of power some of us fear Obama and company want.
This sort of eminent domain is common in the US. Anybody who has scuba dived in non-canyon hydroelectric lakes can testify to the towns submerged by the rising waters. Quabbin reservoir is one example, as is the Tennessee Valley Authority, among many others.

When farmers put up objections to windfarms on their pastures, their land WILL be taken. Domestic cattle are not an endangers species like Gila Monsters and other desert dwellers are. Wind farms on the prairies are environmentally easier to accomplish than solar power in the desert.
The wind companies need to design quieter turbines. Some do some don't.

China has just ordered 100 Superconducting generators for wind turbines:

http://www.amsc.com/newsroom/pr.html?id=313
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Helius
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Post by Helius »

China Engineers seem to realize that Hydropower is good base load backup to the vagaries of wind: Reservoirs can fill when breezes are strong, and empty during the lulls in wind. The system will need to be designed to tolerate lulls in wind of a given length, such as a 3 day lull. If you engineer an electrical system for a 3 day lull in wind and get a 4, then you gotta do rolling blackouts.

Personally, I think we should all get our azz in gear, and push along IV Generation Nukes faster, and look to changing the Fission Nuke Neutron Economies and better Waste recycling through advancing small and cheap Neutron Generators, screw the idea that Q>1.

IntLibber
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Post by IntLibber »

Helius wrote:China Engineers seem to realize that Hydropower is good base load backup to the vagaries of wind: Reservoirs can fill when breezes are strong, and empty during the lulls in wind. The system will need to be designed to tolerate lulls in wind of a given length, such as a 3 day lull. If you engineer an electrical system for a 3 day lull in wind and get a 4, then you gotta do rolling blackouts.

Personally, I think we should all get our azz in gear, and push along IV Generation Nukes faster, and look to changing the Fission Nuke Neutron Economies and better Waste recycling through advancing small and cheap Neutron Generators, screw the idea that Q>1.
Midwestern wind is like the saudi arabia of wind energy, its steady, pretty constant. There is a LOT of potential out there, and the opportunity for farmers to earn rent money off of wind turbine companies is a great way to spread the wealth via free markets.

Helius
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Post by Helius »

IntLibber wrote: Midwestern wind is like the saudi arabia of wind energy, its steady, pretty constant. There is a LOT of potential out there, and the opportunity for farmers to earn rent money off of wind turbine companies is a great way to spread the wealth via free markets.


IntLibber, That is reminiscent of the thinking that we could consume liquid fuels to grow grain that could be fermented and distilled to produce significantly more liquid fuels than we started with. Of course it was all just one big farm support / vote acquisition program in the guise of Energy development. Let's not do that again with Wind Energy.

The problem with wind energy remains no matter how windy it is in the midwest: You need backup power available during the lulls, OR, you need to accept occasional rolling blackouts. I read your comment to mean you either won't have to fire up backup power as often as I'd think, OR, the rolling blackouts won't be as frequent as I'd expect. This is all well and good, but if we're going to consider wind, then we should also consider how it must fit in with the rest of the electrical power infrastructure. Wind is simply not "on demand" baseload, but that's how it seems to be spun up to the public.

The wind lulls, even on the great plains.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Distributed wind can be used for base load at 20% of total nameplate rating.

Considering that wind turbines produce an average of 33% of nameplate rating - that is not bad.

This points up that there is no serious unified program to develop utility scale electrical storage.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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