Media "Control" of the Elections?

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jgarry
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:02 pm

Post by jgarry »

Hoover and Bush ring a bell.....

ravingdave
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:41 am

Post by ravingdave »

jgarry wrote:Hoover and Bush ring a bell.....
Oh, I get it. That's supposed to be a witty refutation of my point. It is rather evidence instead that you didn't understand my point.

Neither Bush, (whom you are implicitily blaming rather than Carter and Clinton whom you should be blaming) nor Hoover (who likewise was blamed for the Great Depression which was in fact caused by the excesses of the 20s) were conservatives, but rather more like North Eastern, Blue Blood, Rockefeller, Country Club, Limousine Liberals fiscally.

They were conservatives only insofar as they weren't (knowingly) socialists.

Bush ran for office as a conservative, but he governed as a liberal. (at least fiscally. Socially and on National Defense, he was more of a conservative.)


In any case, the focus on whatever President holds office, and what his views are, is completely irrelevant to the point. It's what the PEOPLE do, and how the PEOPLE act that determines the destiny of the nation.

When we act like Liberals, (Amoral, free spending, partying, debauching, borrowing, etc. Like we did in the 20s and the 90s) we see an economic boom for awhile, which quickly turns into a bust. (1930s)

When we suffer through austerity, we become thrifty, careful, hard working, serious,reverent (i.e. conservative) and we climb out of the mess. (50s and 80s)

The conservative periods are followed by the liberal periods which are followed by conservative periods and so on.


The Gay 90s (1890s, Prosperity) were followed by a time of austerity which was supplanted by the Roaring 20s which was followed by the great depresion, which was followed by the "Happy Days' 50s, which were followed by the unrest of the 60s and the "malaise" of the 70s to the prosperity of the 80s and the excess of the 90s up to the now global economic and horrific armagedon which we are about to face in the next decade.


This is, of course, and oversimplification, but I sometimes think I can't explain things simply enough.


David

joedead
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:31 pm
Location: Manhattan, NY

Post by joedead »

Dave,

I rabidly disagree with you on most of your points, but enjoy them none-the-less.


What's new?

olivier
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:21 pm
Location: Cherbourg, France

Post by olivier »

I suggest a variant:
When we are at war (40s early 50s), we become thrifty, careful, hard working, serious,reverent (because 1 - we have to face a common danger, 2 - then we have to rebuild all that was destroyed)
When we become conservative (80s, 90s, 00s,...) we become focused on short-term profit and stop investing and that is a mess (10s)

To make it clear, in my mind it is not only valid for the US.

jgarry
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:02 pm

Post by jgarry »

"[Conservatives] have absolutely no reason, none, to trust our word or our actions at this point."
-- RNC Chairman Michael Steele

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Post by seedload »

jgarry wrote:"[Conservatives] have absolutely no reason, none, to trust our word or our actions at this point."
-- RNC Chairman Michael Steele
Have you ever actually heard Michael Steele speak for more that just a cherry picked quote? I listen to talk radio, both conservative and liberal and Michael Steele is one of my favorite people to listen to. He often hosts Bill Bennett's mornings on Fridays of each week. It is a good listen.

regards

jgarry
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:02 pm

Post by jgarry »

Democrats are hardly perfect people. Blago, Burris the list goes on.
However, today's GOP is scum pure and simple.

Billy Catringer
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:32 pm
Location: Texas

Post by Billy Catringer »

What all of this boils down to is that it is high time for us to move off planet--a thing easier said than done.

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Post by seedload »

jgarry wrote:However, today's GOP is scum pure and simple.
Funny that you bring up Michael Steele and then make a statement like this in the very next post.

I was listening to Michael Steele the other day. I tuned over to liberal talk at a break and heard the following statement... "Michael Steele is an Uncle Tom." That coming from the host of the show. It was completely unqualified and unsupported. Similar to your statement above. I find it funny that Republicans are often refered to as intolerant and lacking in compassion, but my experience in listening to both sides is that the opposite is often true. You make my point.

Obviously, both sides have bad apples. But to state that the GOP is 'pure scum' is pretty gross IMHO.

I consider myself part of the GOP. I believe that the underlying beliefs and foundations of conservatism are in the ideals of the Constitution and in the support of one simple concept - liberty. There are a majority of Republican representatives of their constituents in congress that also believe the same thing. These beliefs do not make them scum. These beliefs are perfectly in line with many of our forefathers who very few would consider 'scum'.

That said, I defend your right to call me and the GOP what you want. George Bush, despite all of his other faults, would not have attempted to restrict your right to speak your mind. Over the next few weeks, you will see the opposite happening. You will see extreme movement on the already started talk about restricting speach. I suggest you step back, take a censis of your core beliefs, and ask yourself what the hell is going on.

regards

alexjrgreen
Posts: 815
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: UK

Post by alexjrgreen »

"There is a proper dignity and proportion to be observed in the performance of every act of life."
Meditations, IV, 32

"To refrain from imitation is the best revenge."
Meditations, VI, 5

Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (AD 121-180)
Roman Emperor and Stoic philosopher
Ars artis est celare artem.

jgarry
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:02 pm

Post by jgarry »

It is wrong to issue blanket condemnations. So I apologize for that. However even stalwarts of the GOP have mused upon how far off track the party has gotten. Serious soul searching is called for I should think.

zbarlici
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:23 am
Location: winnipeg, canada

Post by zbarlici »

olivier wrote:I suggest a variant:
When we are at war (40s early 50s), we become thrifty, careful, hard working, serious,reverent (because 1 - we have to face a common danger, 2 - then we have to rebuild all that was destroyed)
When we become conservative (80s, 90s, 00s,...) we become focused on short-term profit and stop investing and that is a mess (10s)

To make it clear, in my mind it is not only valid for the US.


...kind of makes sense that, as a nation, you operate at peak performance/capacity when your livelihood/values are at stake, such as during a war... thats when pretty much every single person starts pulling their own weight. I`m talking about ww2 scenario, not any other one.... so what can be done to keep a nation as competitive as possible when compared to others, in time of calm? Maybe nothing, because thats the way human nature is...?

ravingdave
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:41 am

Post by ravingdave »

joedead wrote:Dave,

I rabidly disagree with you on most of your points, but enjoy them none-the-less.



I appreciate the candor and I don't mind people disagreeing with me at all, as a matter of fact I find it fascinating. Being demonstrated to be wrong about something is an opportunity to learn.

joedead wrote: What's new?
I'm GLAD you asked me that. I have been wanting to present an idea (that I just discovered a few weeks ago.) to you and others to see what you think about it.

I was reading one of the blogs, ( I'm thinking it was "Atlas Shrugs" or "Astute Bloggers" ) and I came across this article which talked about the islamization of Europe. The article pointed out that Europe expected Muslim immigrants to become more tolerant (like Europeans) but for some reason the immigrants weren't becoming more tolerant. If anything, they are forcing the Europeans to accept and tolerate their Ideas.

The article stated that the Deeply religous muslim community is not impressed by European ideas of social tolerance, nor European laws about tolerance, nor European history about tolerance, humanism, etc. Their belief in God requires them to dismiss any ideas which are not compatible with their religion.

The man's point was, you cannot fight a belief with a disbelief. An athiestic, humanist, scientific, evolutionary argument will not work on religious fanatics. They have no respect for these ideas. The man goes on further to say that the only thing you can oppose a belief with is another belief. Basically, a "My version of God is stronger than your version of God" argument.

The man asserts that the only concept which will motivate people to forcefully oppose the islamization of Europe is Christianity, and he points out that Europe has been slowly eroding the only force which could save it. He asserts that only religion can awaken sufficient passion to oppose the fervor of another religion.

I fear I am not doing the article justice in my attempt to explain it second hand and I wish I had marked it's location so I could simply present it instead. I believe it conveyed the point more eleqouently than I have, but hopefully i've managed to give you the gist of it.

I found the idea to be very interesting, and especially so because I didn't think of it. I would be interested in hearing a more secular viewpoint on this idea.


David

ravingdave
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:41 am

Post by ravingdave »

olivier wrote:I suggest a variant:
When we are at war (40s early 50s), we become thrifty, careful, hard working, serious,reverent (because 1 - we have to face a common danger, 2 - then we have to rebuild all that was destroyed)
When we become conservative (80s, 90s, 00s,...) we become focused on short-term profit and stop investing and that is a mess (10s)

To make it clear, in my mind it is not only valid for the US.

It is unhelpful that there is so much uncertainty regarding the meaning of the word "conservative" and "liberal", but unfortunately that is the state of affairs.

For most of the people whom i've spoken to and read what they write, the term conservative acknowledges the evil aspects of human nature, one of which is greed. It recognizes that people aren't prefect, and society's can't be utopia. It likewise recognizes that any realistic society must incorporate failsafes for the inherent failings of mankind.

Conservatism is closely associated with the words cautions and careful, and is not opposed to change, but is opposed to the idea of change that isn't progress.

Conservatism advocate individual freedom modulated by an inherent moral code. Where we have gone wrong in many places is trying to divorce fiscal conservatism from moral conservatism, which of course unleashes the natural and greedy nature of mankind without the controlling influence of conscience.

Free markets without moral control is how we got slavery.



David

ravingdave
Posts: 650
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:41 am

Post by ravingdave »

jgarry wrote:"[Conservatives] have absolutely no reason, none, to trust our word or our actions at this point."
-- RNC Chairman Michael Steele
Amen ! Conservatives have been consistently lied to by Republicans for a long time, and conservatives keep getting the blame for the things which Republicans have been doing that isn't conservative. (spending like drunken sailors, growing the government, encouraging bad/immoral behaviour, interfering in the markets etc.)


David

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