End of Days ...

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Aero
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End of Days ...

Post by Aero »

I have been watching the history channel lately, prophets, ancient civilizations, Armageddon, and so forth. It seems to turn out that the end of days is simply "New Years Eve" on a 26,000 year calendar recording the sun's rotation around the center of the Milky Way galaxy. That is, on December 17, 2012, the earth, sun and the black hole at the center of our galaxy will be in (perfect?) alignment.

I don't know about you, but this information makes me feel better about the "End of Days."
Aero

blaisepascal
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Re: End of Days ...

Post by blaisepascal »

Aero wrote:I have been watching the history channel lately, prophets, ancient civilizations, Armageddon, and so forth. It seems to turn out that the end of days is simply "New Years Eve" on a 26,000 year calendar recording the sun's rotation around the center of the Milky Way galaxy. That is, on December 17, 2012, the earth, sun and the black hole at the center of our galaxy will be in (perfect?) alignment.
That's a new one. What I heard is that on 21 December 2012 or so the Mayan calendar would roll over to the start of the 14th b'ak'tun, a b'ak'tun being a period of time of 144,000 days (about 394 years). A b'ak'tun is 20 k'atun, 1 k'atun is 20 tun, 1 tun is 18 winals, and 1 winal is 20 k'in, or days. Today is 12 b'ak'tun, 19 k'atun, 15 tun, 17 winal, and 15 k'in (or 12.19.15.17.15) since the beginning of the Mayan calendar.

As for me, on December 20th 2012, I'm planning on celebrating like it's 12.19.19.17.19...

Aero
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Post by Aero »

Interestingly, the Mayan calendar was one of the those used in the examples on the TV programs.
Aero

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Aero wrote:Interestingly, the Mayan calendar was one of the those used in the examples on the TV programs.
The human body seems to have a built in year calendar.

For a number of years I used to observe a day of silence on equinoxes and solstices.

For a number of years after I quit doing that I would have the urge to remain silent on equinoxes and solstices. And it wasn't a looking at a calendar thing. I'd start to feel like keeping silence and have a look at a calendar and think hmmmmm.

So the Mayans may have been on to something. BTW I have seen an original Mayan Calendar at the Natural History Museum in Mexico City.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

blaisepascal
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Re: End of Days ...

Post by blaisepascal »

Aero wrote:That is, on December 17, 2012, the earth, sun and the black hole at the center of our galaxy will be in (perfect?) alignment.


On 2012-12-17, the declination of the Sun will be -23°21'27", and the declination of Sgr A* (the black hole in question) will be -29°00'38", so the sun will be at least 5°39'11" North from the Sgr A*, not counting the 1°34'30" I compute in right asc difference (0:06:18 in standard notation). I get roughly 5°39' angular distance between the Sun and Sgr A*.

To put that in perspective, the angular diameter of the Sun is about 30', or 1/11th the distance between the Sun and Sgr A*

On 2008-12-17, the Dec figures for both the Sun and Sgr A* are within 10" of what they will be on 2012-12-17, and the RA have similar differences as well.

So on 2012 the Earth-Sun-SgrA* alignment isn't particularly close, it gets a similar alignment each year (twice, if you count the Sun-Earth-SgrA* alignments as well), and the 2012 alignment isn't even that much closer relative to the standard alignment.

Where did the 26Ky cycle come from?

joedead
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Post by joedead »

It's all a bunch of psuedo-scientific BS. The calendar isn't even Mayan, it's Aztec.
On the matter of the Galactic Alignment, and the works of theorists like Arguelles, Pinchbeck, and Jenkins, who attempt to link the Mayan Long Count with alignment of the Milky Way and the solar system, Anthony Aveni, an archeoastronomer and professor at Colgate, curtly told The New York Times: “I defy anyone to look up into the sky and see the galactic equator. You need a radio telescope for that.” The Curious About Astronomy Web site attached to Cornell also takes no prisoners when it comes to galactic alignment. “The sun crosses the plane of the galaxy twice every year as we orbit around it, with no ill effect on Earth.”

http://www.lacitybeat.com/cms/story/det ... soon/7137/

This piece at the Skeptical Inqirer does a good job of debunking 2012 myths.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2008-05/morrison.html

djolds1
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Post by djolds1 »

joedead wrote:It's all a bunch of psuedo-scientific BS. The calendar isn't even Mayan, it's Aztec.
Or we can assume that the calendar of the Maya/Aztec was only approximately correct and that the end of the world will merely create a "phase change" for the return of magic.

Making the assumptions of most members of this board deeply wrong.:twisted:
Vae Victis

IntLibber
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Re: End of Days ...

Post by IntLibber »

blaisepascal wrote:
Where did the 26Ky cycle come from?
Its the period of the earths precession of the pole due to tidal influence. Called by the ancient greeks the "Great Year".

IntLibber
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Re: End of Days ...

Post by IntLibber »

Aero wrote:I have been watching the history channel lately, prophets, ancient civilizations, Armageddon, and so forth. It seems to turn out that the end of days is simply "New Years Eve" on a 26,000 year calendar recording the sun's rotation around the center of the Milky Way galaxy. That is, on December 17, 2012, the earth, sun and the black hole at the center of our galaxy will be in (perfect?) alignment.

I don't know about you, but this information makes me feel better about the "End of Days."
Reactionary-minded folks who exhibit an elevated inability to deal with change tend toward chiliastic disasturbationism, no matter what century they are in. It isnt surprising we see it today. The Human animal is evolved to handle tools, yes, but with a rate of technological advancement that is a near stasis compared to today, and used to a communications sphere so small that the rate of natural disasters common to a 20 mile radius is "normal" for a typical human to handle. Being exposed to modern media that televise a whole globes events and disasters quite easily breed anxiety and a tendency toward millenialism.

blaisepascal
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Re: End of Days ...

Post by blaisepascal »

IntLibber wrote:
blaisepascal wrote:
Where did the 26Ky cycle come from?
Its the period of the earths precession of the pole due to tidal influence. Called by the ancient greeks the "Great Year".
I can buy that, but since there are only 144K days (about 394) years in a b'ak'tun, and this is the end of the 13th b'ak'tun (or about 5125.36 years) since the nominal start of the mesoamerican calendar system, there doesn't seem to be a real connection betwixt the end of the 13th b'ak'tun and the precession cycle.

Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me.

Mike Holmes
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Post by Mike Holmes »

The Mayans did, in fact, have astonishingly accurate celestial mathematics. That's interesting in and of itself. Why bother?

The 2012 date, being the end of the precession cycle means that MSimon is right... that's the date we start heading into the next ice-age and will need more CO2 to combat this effect. Fortunately we'll have about 6500 years to work on it, before we reach the "autumn" of the cycle.

:-)

Hooey? Well, yeah, eggs are no easier to stand on their ends at the equinoxes. Scientifically it might all be "hooey." But spiritually? What IntLibber points out as the evolutionary nature of humans indicates that if you're fighting the spiritual interpretation of things, you're fighting your own genetics. Good in some cases, but I think that you can be of two minds on the subject quite profitably.

I for one advocate MSimon being quiet for a day on the solstices and equinoxes. That includes internet posting, too, right?

I kid, because I love...

More to the point, our minds work best when we percieve things in cycles. If, in fact, you become a better person because you think that you have a target date of 2012 by which to do it, so much the better. Of course somebody will start a suicide cult up for that date, too, and that's why spiritualism gets a bad name. Spiritualism is not a substitute for living in the real world, it's a helpful technique for doing so. And can be accomplished, seemingly paradoxically, in a rational manner.

Maybe the Mayans were on to something? Science tells you what's going on. The "Stories" that we tell regarding these phenomenon give us an answer to why, a priori, what's going on is going on. Science can't do that, and we crave that.

Well, I do at least.

Mike

KitemanSA
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Re: End of Days ...

Post by KitemanSA »

IntLibber wrote: Reactionary-minded folks who exhibit an elevated inability to deal with change tend toward chiliastic disasturbationism, no matter what century they are in.
Are thet "Masters of Disasturbation" because they are disasters at mast... ummm never mind.

joedead
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Post by joedead »

FOR THE SECOND TIME, IT'S NOT THE MAYANS, IT'S AZTEC.

:P

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

I for one advocate MSimon being quiet for a day on the solstices and equinoxes. That includes internet posting, too, right?
I changed religions. My new one requires me to be loud and obnoxious.
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blaisepascal
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Post by blaisepascal »

joedead wrote:FOR THE SECOND TIME, IT'S NOT THE MAYANS, IT'S AZTEC.

:P
In the context of the 2012 acrapolypse, the important calendar is the "long count" calendar, which is rolling over in December, 2012.

Here's what Wikipedia says about the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar:
wikipedia wrote: The Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is a non-repeating, vigesimal (base-20) calendar used by several Mesoamerican cultures, most notably the Maya. For this reason, it is sometimes known as the Maya (or Mayan) Long Count calendar. Using a modified vigesimal tally, the Long Count calendar identifies a day by counting the number of days passed since August 11, 3114 BCE in the proleptic Gregorian or September 6th in the Julian calendar, (−3113) Astronomical dating.[1] Because the Long Count calendar is non-repeating, it was widely used on monuments.
Importantly, it doesn't mention the Aztecs at all, and the discussion on Wikipedia of the Aztec calendar doesn't mention the Long Count calendar either.
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