GIThruster wrote:[
Think of the ways what you're talking about could possibly occur in the real world. Say you're at YouTube and someone shoots you a note that you have a vid up of their copyrighted material. You take it down unless you have reasons to suspect the party is lying. Now under what circumstances would someone lie about such a thing, and under what sorts of conditions would you be so unable to tell whether the video was copyrighted? Almost all writing, vidographing, etc. is copyrighted in the moment it's created. What is usually at question is whether someone is making "fair use" of the material. When for instance, you quote a few paragraphs or even a couple pages of a book for use, and note the source, that is fair use. When you distribute photocopies of entire books in order to avoid paying for them, that is not fair use.
This happens all the time on you tube. People make phony DMCA requests to youtube ALL THE TIME on videos that for no other reason they don't agree with what is said in the videos. Those videos and accounts are suspended ALL THE TIME with little to no burden of proof! Youtube doesn't care if the requests are valid or not because they don't want to be sued! It's shut down and ask questions later. And now this is being codified into law!
Okay, lets grant what you say is true. I have no idea but I'm willing to grant the point.
Under what conditions would those videos not be copyrighted and the charge against be false? For example, lets say someone posts an interview with POTUS by Bill O'Reilly up on YouTube and someone is offended and writes YouTube to take it down, saying they own the IP. Even if they're lying, certainly Fox owns the IP and it's not supposed to be on YouTube.
You need to look for specific circumstances where material is being deceitfully claimed as the possession of someone for nefarious reasons AND in fact the material was posted by its owner. If the material is copyrighted, it doesn't matter who complained or why. It's not supposed to be on YouTube unless it was posted by its owner.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
Diogenes wrote:I believe copywrites should have no more protection than patents. If anything, patents should have more protection because they actually produce something USEFUL to society as opposed to merely entertaining.
That is a position of ignorance. I suggest you study the issue a lot more. Just because you have some emotional predisposition against the arts does not mean song writers don't deserve to make a living, authors should be unemployed, etc. Your distinction between the arts and sciences is not one that will earn you brownie points with the bulk of humanity. Lord of the Rings has enhanced the lives of countless millions over the years and Tolkien and his estate, obviously deserve protection for that work.
Last edited by GIThruster on Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
Well I just watched 1 minute in and the guy has already lied 4 times. Why would I watch this?
This is an example of someone defending the art of thievery at the expense of common sense. I have no sympathies.
Lie #1: the SOPA law is being supported by people "so they can control the internet". Obviously and stupidly wrong.
Lie #2: the people lobbying for the law are the ones who distributed the file sharing software in the first place then turned around and sued people for using it, "for billions of dollars". Obviously and stupidly wrong. This guy is a crackpot.
Lie #3: Joel Tenenbaum was sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars. In fact he was sued for $67k
Lie #4: Jammie Rasset was sued for millions of dollars. In fact, she was sued for $54k.
That's 45 seconds in and 4 complete lies. Why would I waste time with this crackpot?
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
GIThruster wrote:Well I just watched 1 minute in and the guy has already lied 4 times. Why would I watch this?
This is an example of someone defending the art of thievery at the expense of common sense. I have no sympathies.
Lie #1: the SOPA law is being supported by people "so they can control the internet". Obviously and stupidly wrong.
Lie #2: the people lobbying for the law are the ones who distributed the file sharing software in the first place then turned around and sued people for using it, "for billions of dollars". Obviously and stupidly wrong. This guy is a crackpot.
Lie #3: Joel Tenenbaum was sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars. In fact he was sued for $67k
Lie #4: Jammie Rasset was sued for millions of dollars. In fact, she was sued for $54k.
That's 45 seconds in and 4 complete lies. Why would I waste time with this crackpot?
#1 no
#2 that is what the video trys to prove, but you didn't watch it.
#3 the original amount was over 600,000, which is what he was sued for, perhaps not what they got from him. I thought it was reinstated to the original amount but I could be wrong.
#4 the original amount was 1.5 million
#5 you just stick your fingers in your ears and go lalala
Carter, these court cases were resolved years before this guy posted this ridiculous rant. He's lying. There's no excuse to say that Capitol Records created, distributed and instructed on the use of file sharing software so they could sue people when this is not true. File sharing software was created by third parties in order to make a buck because the law had not yet taken form to cope with the IP issues caused by the internet. Capitol Records had nothing to do with it. Likewise there have been no suits for "billions" and the suits he calls "hundreds of thousands" and "millions" were resolved for far less years before he made this post. That is a deliberate misrepresentation of the facts--a lie.
What a waste of time. . .all to support the ability to steal. You need to be ashamed.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
Carter, these court cases were resolved years before this guy posted this ridiculous rant. He's lying. There's no excuse to say that Capitol Records created, distributed and instructed on the use of file sharing software so they could sue people when this is not true. File sharing software was created by third parties in order to make a buck because the law had not yet taken form to cope with the IP issues caused by the internet. Capitol Records had nothing to do with it. Likewise there have been no suits for "billions" and the suits he calls "hundreds of thousands" and "millions" were resolved for far less years before he made this post. That is a deliberate misrepresentation of the facts--a lie.
What a waste of time. . .all to support the ability to steal. You need to be ashamed.
It is hardly a lie if that is the amount of money they tried to get. And he never said capitol records did that. He said CBS, Disney, and Time-Warner did. Did you finally watch the video or just making stuff up? And besides, are you NOW claiming that third parties are NOT liable? WTF? You're just playing favorites now. And why should I be ashamed for simply forwarding a link to a video or do you just want to start name-calling? You're the one that has been judgmental without doing any research what-so-ever! You couldn't even be bothered to type "SOPA" into a search engine to find the text of the bill.
Last edited by kcdodd on Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Look the guy you linked to is a crackpot and a liar for the reasons I've noted and no I did not do what you're accusing me of above so really, you need to knock it off.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
kcdodd wrote:You mean you didn't decide to not watch the video because you didn't like what he was saying? shocker.
No. I mean just what I said. I watched 1 minute of the video and noted the guy was spewing lies as fast as his mouth would function, so I stopped watching and any sensible person would do the same if they value their time.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
You know that those who think they can apparently violate conservation of momentum are also often labeled crackpots so that noone has to listen to them.
Addendum:
It is not a lie to say he was sued for "hundreds of thousands of dollars" if they originally sought that amount of money, even if they don't get it. What you are arguing is that if they sued him and LOST, then he was "sued for zero dollars", which is FALSE. That makes no sense. He would have still been sued for some amount of money! You are just trying to claim he is lying so you don't have to listen! How hypocritical!
No Carter. What I'm saying is that after the fact, it is misrepresentative to say "billions", "millions" and "hundreds of thousands" of dollars when what we see is the cases closed for far less.
Likewise, the contention that those whom brought the law suits he references, like Capitol Records; created distributed and trained others in the use of file sharing software when this is not true, is certainly a LIE.
This crackpot is leading people to presume that folks like Capitol Records are championing this law so they can sue people, when in fact, they are supporting this legislature to stop people from stealing from them.
You do see the difference, don't you?
And really, what excuse can be had that he said the cases totaled "billions"? This is obviously not true and has never been.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis
Carter, I listened to the first few minutes and in my judgement, the first two minutes were my time wasted, and what immediately followed was unfounded and unreferenced allegations regarding "censorship" which I think I have already show is a red herring as regards the real issues. "Censorship" and "freedom of speech" are not the issues here. How people steal is the issue.
On the other issue as regards the claims of "hundreds of thousands", "millions" and "billions" of dollars damages awarded for IP theft against criminals, let me note one very important specific as regards this issue.
There are a handful of competing theories behind the whole question of "justice" or how and why the state has the right to cause suffering of any kind in its citizens when they violate the law. There is for instance the notion of "compensatory action" that compensates victims for violations against them. There is the notion of "retributive justice" that justifies causing suffering based upon the notion of a debt to society. There are several others but in our case, most importantly is the theory of "utilitarian justice".
The utilitarian theory of justice is particularly important in our case, because it is the notion of utilitarianism that promotes the notion that legal penalties for crime can dissuade people from committing a crime. Let me make this point very clear.
If someone, say Capitol Records, was only entitled to compensatory awards for damages accrued from crimes against their property, they would at best be able to sue and win for $1-2 for each song stollen from them. Were this the case, anyone with no moral compass would steal from Capitol Records, because the consequences of being caught, being sued and paying for their transgressions, would be so small that Capitol would never bring suit.
Rather, the law in this country is written very differently. Instead of merely compensatory awards, victims are most often able to win "punitive damages" intended to punish the criminal for their acts and especially, to punish them to a degree that will under utilitarian theory, dissuade others from committing the same crimes.
The whole point behind "punitive damages" is to punish the crime so severely that the average person will not commit the crime for fear of the consequences. Point in fact, the entire notion of punitive damages relies upon what seems at first glance an unfair compensation for an infraction of the law.
So to be quite frank about it, when this joker you referenced above lies and talks about billions of dollars of awards for violations of the law, toward criminals who have stollen the property of others, they are playing directly into the hands of the law, and the IP holders. It is certainly in the interest of Capitol Records for people to believe that if they're caught stealing from them, they can be sued for hundreds of thousands" or even "millions" of dollars, because it is fear of this that stops the average Joe from stealing.
So just saying, this above has gone really crazy and stupid. If people can't present sensible cases where innocent individuals will be punished, or cases where the law fails to protect those at risk, the rest is all red herring. All the stuff about "censorship", "freedom of speech" and the evil corporate IP holders earning a living by suing innocent people, is just nonsense.
And take note, when someone appeals to your sympathies by portraying a poor housewife or college student as a victim of the law, instead of noting that person is in fact a criminal, guilty of stealing valuable property from others; they are swaying you to hold a position that does not in fact make sense. You're being manipulated by these people and a better understanding of why we have the laws we do, often enlightens as to why we ought to have laws we as yet do not.
Fact is, we live in an ever changing world, that at times presents new risks to those creative souls who earn a living by creating intellectual property and if we want to see the benefits of such creations, we have to support against theft of that property.
Hope that helps.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis