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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:30 pm
by Billy Catringer
Positive feedback loops are rare and short-lived. Of course water vapor is a negative feedback loop.
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:54 am
by MSimon
TallDave wrote:Now it turns out
water vapor feedback may be negative.
Oops, there goes the whole foundation of global warming theory. Without large positive water vapor feedback, there's no way trace amounts of CO2 can drive climate.
The science no longer matters. If it ever did.
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:00 am
by Billy Catringer
It NEVER mattered. It was always a political tool and, oddly enough, it started on the right with Maggie Thatcher. The left seized hold of it as an excuse to establish a "socialist utopia". Of course, true to Orwell, what they are knowingly establishing is a dystopia.
We Americans have a habit that is both a blessing and a curse. We see things through the lenses of our belief systems. We will often ignore the dangers and facts in order to get what we want. In this case, half of us want one thing the other half wants another.
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:41 am
by alexjrgreen
Billy Catringer wrote:It NEVER mattered. It was always a political tool and, oddly enough, it started on the right with Maggie Thatcher.
http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeche ... cid=107346
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:20 pm
by ravingdave
TallDave wrote:Now it turns out
water vapor feedback may be negative.
Oops, there goes the whole foundation of global warming theory. Without large positive water vapor feedback, there's no way trace amounts of CO2 can drive climate.
Gee.... didn't I say that constantly, and likewise, that it makes the entire discussion moot ? I kept expressing amazement that people thought there was anything further to discuss, and yet people kept assuring me that they understood my point, but kept informing me it was more complicated than that.
To reiterate. If water vapor (which is far more abundant and has 20 times the absorption of C02) is a positive feedback mechanism, the planet went into a runaway greenhouse condition millions of years ago. If it is negative, it's self regulating, and we don't need to worry about C02 or Methane, etc.
The fact that we exist at all is proof that water vapor must be a negative feedback mechanism.
It OUGHT to be the end of the discussion, but I'm sure it won't be.
David