And you guys thought *I* was nuts.

[hanelyp]

It is axiomatic that any morality which lessens chances for survival is a non-viable system from an evolutionary standpoint.

OTOH, if your argument is that the moral system that ensures its survival is the best moral system, then surely that makes the outcome you're suggesting here:

Islam is a meme. It spreads by reproduction AND by direct transfer. What this means is that at some point it will be big enough to swing elections, and at that point it will continuously vote the reins of government to aid in it's spread.

no bad thing?

I'd suggest that militant islam is like a virulent disease that spreads aggressively, until eventually
- killing the hosts it needs.
- the remaining hosts develop immunity.
or
- the disease adapts to be less deadly.

I note that the economies of many Muslim dominated nations would quickly implode if cut off from the rest of the world. Hoping for new energy tech that makes that more possible.

[tomclarke]

Britain has already had trouble dealing with militants in this regard.

At least a couple of thousand years experience of dealing with them.

My guess is your best area for push back against the radical muslim world view would be muslim women. Easy for a muslim male Iman to say "more babies, more babies in Xyears we will own them." But it is women who have to have those 6 babies(or more) each. Their the ones who go through the Cesareans, breech births etc. damaging/aging the body. In the "old country" they can overwhelm them with concensus thinking that this is the only way the Koran says so. But in secular europe they will be aware of women who have 1-2 kids each(or none), work, get divorced from abusive spouses etc. They will be exposed to these ideas that a woman has a right to control her own body. Doubt if even the muslim brotherhood in Egypt expects that women will vote them in to take their vote away(I hope).

No-one dislikes the cultural baggage in some varieties of islam more than me: female slavery, feuds and honour killings, ideological war.

But before you condemn it let me point out that some varieties of Christianity have until very recent times shared all these atributes. Not suprising because the three book religions all have much in common and derive from the same middle-eastern culture.

In fact some varieties of Christianity still have all these attributes, but they have little traction, except in a few areas of the US and Africa.

I'm not here comparing the two religions to say one is better or worse than the other. Just that both can be enlightened or appalling, and the trend towards enlightenment winning, in liberal democreatic cultures, is equal in both.

[CKay]

Honestly, the level of misinformed, overblown, chicken-licken hysteria displayed here is staggering.

Believing such nonsense may afford some perverse amygdala-tickling thrill, but it's nothing more than the propaganda of the extreme right, and you lot are swallowing it whole.

[MSimon]

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/201 ... -monolith/

From the comments:

The Rape of Nanking — 1937 [i.e., NOT caused by us Americans]

“The Japanese were infuriated by the strength of Chinese resistance, and when China’s Nationalist capital Nanking fell in December 1937, Japanese troops immediately slaughtered thousands of Chinese soldiers who had surrendered to them.

“The Japanese then rounded up about twenty thousand young Chinese men and transported them in trucks outside the city walls where they were killed in a massive slaughter. Japanese troops were then encouraged by their officers to loot Nanking, and slaughter and rape the Chinese population of the city.

“For six weeks, life for the Chinese in Nanking became a nightmare. Bands of drunken Japanese soldiers roamed the city, murdering, raping, looting, and burning at whim. Chinese civilians who were stopped on the street, and found to possess nothing of value, were immediately killed.

“At least twenty thousand Chinese women were raped in Nanking during the first four weeks of the Japanese occupation, and many were mutilated and killed when the Japanese troops were finished with them.

“The Japanese troops were encouraged by their officers to invent ever more horrible ways to slaughter the Chinese population of the city. When the bodies of murdered Chinese choked the streets and the gutters ran red with their blood, the Japanese were forced to refine their methods of slaughter in the interest of preventing the spread of disease.

“Batches of Chinese civilians were rounded up and herded into slaughter pits. Here the grinning Japanese soldiers would either bury them alive, hack them to death with their swords, use them for bayonet practice, or pour petrol on the victims and burn them alive. The bodies of thousands of victims of the slaughter were dumped into the Yangtze River until the river was red with their blood. After looting Nanking of anything of value, the Japanese started fires that gutted one third of the city.”

But hey! the Smithsonian Institute wanted to put up an “evenhanded” (i.e., Jap apologist) exhibit about the A-bomb. That was barely deflected by still-living Pacific Theater vets and the Chinese. But when their generation is gone, expect the Japs and the Nazis to get full rehabilitation treatment by the Quisling Left.

[CKay]

I note that the economies of many Muslim dominated nations would quickly implode if cut off from the rest of the world. Hoping for new energy tech that makes that more possible.

1. Developed economies are far more vulnerable - an undeveloped North African nation would weather isolation more easily than, say, the UK.
2. New energy technology - cheap solar - will make many Islamic nations more self dependent in energy, not less.
3. What a thoroughly despicable, nasty thing to wish on any people, whatever their religion (I bet you're loving the famine in the Sahel ).

[MSimon]

2. New energy technology - cheap solar - will make many Islamic nations more self dependent in energy, not less.

UH. You have information on that that you are keeping from us? And BTW do you know of solar cells that can collect dark energy?

Why would I wish death and destruction on the Arabs? For the same reason I would have wished such on the Germans and Japanese 1930 to 45. With enough pain people learn things.

===

From: http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/201 ... ent-202787

Anarchy can be very, very tempting. Loosing the bonds of “civilized” men, living a total adrenaline rush with a handful of like-minded bros. Those dirt bags who attacked Lulu probably felt it. I’m sure it explains a lot of violent behavior by people who otherwise have to traction in society. Barbarism calls to such people, “Come on! Take down the man! They’ll never let you into the good life, so take it from ‘em!” Mr. Hyde, indeed. … Islam, I think, conjures it up, full-bore. I think that is why Islam is successful, ultimately.

It also explains why Islam is spreading like wildfire among the prison population. When your violent, murderous inclinations and criminal behavior are sanctioned by Allah, it’s a natural fit. Islam was founded by desert bandits and caravan raiders.

[CKay]

2. New energy technology - cheap solar - will make many Islamic nations more self dependent in energy, not less.

UH. You have information on that that you are keeping from us?

The cost of solar has reached grid parity in many countries now and is certainly cheaper than the diesel generators that are commonly used for electrical power. But change "will" to "would" if you want. It doesn't anyway affect the point I was making - new energy techs could potentially make islamic countries less vulnerable to external forces.

Why would I wish death and destruction on the Arabs? For the same reason I would have wished such on the Germans and Japanese 1930 to 45. With enough pain people learn things.

That's nice.

[MSimon]

The cost of solar has reached grid parity in many countries

Not counting backup generation/storage. You know. For cloudy days and for night.

Three days of cloudy weather without a backup system capable of handling the full load will bring the Solar countries to a halt. Say. Maybe you have a point. We need to make them totally dependent on solar. Maybe they will be stupid enough to pay us for the service. I hope so. Because they don't seem smart enough to do it on their own.

[MSimon]

Without cheap electrical storage cheap solar is useless.

I'm hoping for Polywell myself. Turkey and The US will be he new Saudi Arabias.

Arabs don't do machinery. So Westerners will be required. The explanation of why is here:

http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

[CKay]

Turkey and The US will be he new Saudi Arabias.

Don't know why you brought up Turkey - but Turkey is of course a predominantly Islamic nation. /shrug

[CKay]

Without cheap electrical storage cheap solar is useless.

In undeveloped areas with poor or non existent grid power - eg, Islamic Sub-Saharan Africa - it's certainly useful.

Besides, I was addressing hanelyp's suggestion of some unspecified new energy techs, and thus it's perfectly valid to suppose that might include new energy storage.

[MSimon]

Turkey and The US will be he new Saudi Arabias.

Don't know why you brought up Turkey - but Turkey is of course a predominantly Islamic nation. /shrug

You need to get up to speed on Polywell. America has about 1/3 of the world's known reserves of Boron. Turkey 2/3rds. Very roughly.

[CKay]

Turkey is of course a predominantly Islamic nation. /shrug

America has about 1/3 of the world's known reserves of Boron. Turkey 2/3rds.

So with new energy tech (in this case Polywell) an Islamic nation might become energy self sufficient and less vulnerable to outside forces.

Thanks for proving my point.

[MSimon]

Turkey is of course a predominantly Islamic nation. /shrug

America has about 1/3 of the world's known reserves of Boron. Turkey 2/3rds.

So with new energy tech (in this case Polywell) an Islamic nation might become energy self sufficient and less vulnerable to outside forces.

Thanks for proving my point. :)

But they will be unable to maintain the infrastructure. Unless Allah wills it.

[CKay]

double post