210 MWe Pebble Bed Reactor to be built in China, April

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:42 pm

From NBF:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/china- ... tarts.html

rjaypeters · Post by **rjaypeters** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:04 pm

Except for the graphite* contained in each "pebble", I like this design of reactor.

*Anyone remember Chernobyl?

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:08 pm

Well allegedly Chernobyl can not happen with this design, as it is passively cooled. Chernobyl was also a very different type of reactor. I dont think that they can be directly compared. But I might be wrong here. I am not an expert on nuclear reactor design.

rjaypeters · Post by **rjaypeters** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:26 pm

Indeed, the Chernobyl reactor's graphite was not encapsulated as in these pebbles*. Nevertheless, graphite burns and that's why I don't like it around enriched radioactives.

* That I know the Chinese are first to build a working reactor. I hope it works out.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:45 pm

I understand your reservation towards graphite to some extent, I am just not sure how important that factor really is with this reactor type.

The Germans did have a pebble bed test reactor in operation for a few years, but it has since been discontinued (thanks to the stupid socialist and green party coalition government that they had there for a while).
I dont quite know how simillar this was to the one built in China though, or whether there were some larger differences.
The Chinese one is passively cooled, whatever that means in praxis.

cc · Post by cc » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:11 pm

Does anyone know what the fuel composition and burn up ratio are in these reactors? I can't imagine it would be very high, and encasing the fuel in nearly* indestructible pebbles would seem likely to make reprocessing very difficult. If that is the case, then this design looks like a dead end.

* The "nearly" makes me very nervous, considering the graphite involved. If each and every pebble is not essentially perfect, it could have disastrous consequences. Predicating the safety of the design on perfection in manufacturing seems like a terrible idea.

hanelyp · Post by **hanelyp** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:29 am

"Passively cooled" means the reactor is supposed to not melt down if the cooling pumps fail.

krenshala · Post by **krenshala** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:11 am

hanelyp wrote:"Passively cooled" means the reactor is supposed to not melt down if the cooling pumps fail.

key words being "supposed to".

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:45 am

This is why I like Molten Salt Reactors. The core CAN'T melt down cuz it is already molten! In an accident, the fuel drains out of the core and freezes!

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:48 pm

I wonder if what is happening in these days in Japan might give start to a new renaissance for Molten Salt Reactors.
We can't afford not to use fission reactors to sustain our civilization, at least until a proper fusion device will be finally discovered.

I have seen quite a lot of articles on scientific papers in the last few days about Thorium, and Thorium might indeed become the fuel of choice in the next gen of reactors on the wave of Fukushima scare.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:33 pm

If there will be a next gen of reactors at all on the wave of the Fukushima scare. I am affraid, they will just abandone nuclear power all together.
Politicians are idiots.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:08 pm

Skipjack wrote:If there will be a next gen of reactors at all on the wave of the Fukushima scare. I am affraid, they will just abandone nuclear power all together.
Politicians are idiots.

Only in the west? After all, China just stated they would develop and patent the MSR technology right out from under US!

seedload · Post by **seedload** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:43 pm

Giorgio wrote:I wonder if what is happening in these days in Japan might give start to a new renaissance for Molten Salt Reactors.
We can't afford not to use fission reactors to sustain our civilization, at least until a proper fusion device will be finally discovered.

I have seen quite a lot of articles on scientific papers in the last few days about Thorium, and Thorium might indeed become the fuel of choice in the next gen of reactors on the wave of Fukushima scare.

Hope this trend continues to grow.

Wall Street Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 58916.html

Bloomberg - mentions LFTR
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-2 ... r-coy.html

Toronto Star
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/art ... ergy-needs

... which includes evidence that the media frenzy over Thorium and LFTR might be heating up.

So besieged is he <Kirk Sorenson of EnergyFromThorium.com> with requests for interviews about thorium ... that he emails his regrets to the Toronto Star that he can’t talk before this story’s deadline.

Daily Comet - Louisiana - Can't have everything:)
http://www.dailycomet.com/article/20110 ... n-disaster

Hopefully, something good will come out of this mess.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:17 pm

Only in the west?

Well, the Chinese have proven over and over again, that they do want to have progress at ALL COST. It might not be desireable, but it sure means that they do things, while we just talk about them...
It also allows them to take over world leadership.
I am not saying that what they are doing is right either, but they sure are pushing ahead.
I wished our politicians were that decisive sometimes.
But ours care more about the perception and the jobs created by a decision than the actual effect the decision will have in the long term.

ltgbrown · Post by **ltgbrown** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:17 am

They care about being reelected above all else. Change is difficult, even if in the end it is for the best, so making a decision that causes change results in pain and therefore not being reelected. So, change now a days is very incremental, insufficient at times, and slow. Only in times of great stress (think Patriot Act post 9/11) can real change occur.