AGW Supporters always ignore this question

[alexjrgreen]

Oh and MSimon, "12 MW wind turbines" don't exist.

So true.

I think I mentioned that more research should be going into making turbines larger. Rather than spending 1,000 times as much on turbines that are a dead loss to the economy.

We're getting there: The Queen Buys The World’s Largest Wind Turbine: 7.5 Megawatts.

And superconducting generators are not exotic. They are just unusual.

Do you remember the 35 MW SC motor thread?

I believe American Superconductor is doing work on such generators.

Britain in the frame for 10MW offshore wind turbine from AMSC

[alexjrgreen]

You know for most of my life I've heard about the "peace process," but never about actually creating peace. Hamas is the government that the Gazan's wanted. Hamas does not want peace. If Hamas wanted peace ther would be peace. But Hamas' entire reason for existance is war. They will never want peace. Ergo for peace to happen Hamas must be destroyed.

The only way to have peace is to provide justice. That's the lesson Britain had to learn in Northern Ireland. As long as the state condones injustice there will be violence.

In Northern Ireland, Catholics were regularly discriminated against and humiliated by the Protestant majority. The result? Americans were queueing up to fund the IRA.

Then the British Government finally started to enforce equality laws. Once Catholics could live and work with dignity, the flow of funds and recruits for the IRA started to dry up. Eventually they made peace.

[Helius]

You know for most of my life I've heard about the "peace process," but never about actually creating peace. Hamas is the government that the Gazan's wanted. Hamas does not want peace. If Hamas wanted peace ther would be peace. But Hamas' entire reason for existance is war. They will never want peace. Ergo for peace to happen Hamas must be destroyed.

The only way to have peace is to provide justice. That's the lesson Britain had to learn in Northern Ireland. As long as the state condones injustice there will be violence.

In Northern Ireland, Catholics were regularly discriminated against and humiliated by the Protestant majority. The result? Americans were queueing up to fund the IRA.

Then the British Government finally started to enforce equality laws. Once Catholics could live and work with dignity, the flow of funds and recruits for the IRA started to dry up. Eventually they made peace.

You think Hamas' goal is peace with Israel. I don't believe Hamas wants peace with Israel at all, and will use tools at their disposal to prevent peace and individual equality.
So long as Hamas and other extremists can leverage teen psychological depression through the suicide vest, they can interfere with the inexorable tendency of folks of differing faiths to work closely together. They will continue to use this and other tools at their disposal to prevent individual Palestinians to live in peace and equality with individual Israelis.

[alexjrgreen]

You think Hamas' goal is peace with Israel. I don't believe Hamas wants peace with Israel at all, and will use tools at their disposal to prevent peace and individual equality.
So long as Hamas and other extremists can leverage teen psychological depression through the suicide vest, they can interfere with the inexorable tendency of folks of differing faiths to work closely together. They will continue to use this and other tools at their disposal to prevent individual Palestinians to live in peace and equality with individual Israelis.

The IRA's goal wasn't to make peace either:

"The present moment is opportune to declare the attitude of the IRA to the present world situation. The IRA cannot recognize the right of England or any other Power to maintain her forces in or base them on any part of the Irish territory without the free consent of the Irish people. The IRA therefore reserves the right to use whatever measures present themselves to clear this territory of such forces."

IRA Army Council 1942

The British tried lots of different approaches in Northern Ireland. Providing justice was the only one that worked.

[Helius]

You think Hamas' goal is peace with Israel. I don't believe Hamas wants peace with Israel at all, and will use tools at their disposal to prevent peace and individual equality.
So long as Hamas and other extremists can leverage teen psychological depression through the suicide vest, they can interfere with the inexorable tendency of folks of differing faiths to work closely together. They will continue to use this and other tools at their disposal to prevent individual Palestinians to live in peace and equality with individual Israelis.

The IRA's goal wasn't to make peace either:

"The present moment is opportune to declare the attitude of the IRA to the present world situation. The IRA cannot recognize the right of England or any other Power to maintain her forces in or base them on any part of the Irish territory without the free consent of the Irish people. The IRA therefore reserves the right to use whatever measures present themselves to clear this territory of such forces."

IRA Army Council 1942

The British tried lots of different approaches in Northern Ireland. Providing justice was the only one that worked.

Correct. The IRA wasn't operating in a culture where they could convince their own compatriots that it would be OK to parlay a propensity for teens to consider suicide into a socially separating mechanism that would ensure the continued existence of the IRA organization. Hamas is operating in just such a culture. Now try to apply a just parity among individuals in *that* cultural environment.

[Jccarlton]

You think Hamas' goal is peace with Israel. I don't believe Hamas wants peace with Israel at all, and will use tools at their disposal to prevent peace and individual equality.
So long as Hamas and other extremists can leverage teen psychological depression through the suicide vest, they can interfere with the inexorable tendency of folks of differing faiths to work closely together. They will continue to use this and other tools at their disposal to prevent individual Palestinians to live in peace and equality with individual Israelis.

The IRA's goal wasn't to make peace either:

"The present moment is opportune to declare the attitude of the IRA to the present world situation. The IRA cannot recognize the right of England or any other Power to maintain her forces in or base them on any part of the Irish territory without the free consent of the Irish people. The IRA therefore reserves the right to use whatever measures present themselves to clear this territory of such forces."

IRA Army Council 1942

The British tried lots of different approaches in Northern Ireland. Providing justice was the only one that worked.

The IRA's goal was to turn Ireland into a Socialist paradise and satellite of the Soviet Union. Just like the Red Brigades and all the other terrorist/revolutionary groups spawned by the KGB in the '60s and '70s. When the big red bear sugar daddy died so did the IRA.
Hamas' goal is the destruction of Israel, the subjugation or extermination of the Jews and ultimately Islamic domination over the world. Same as the rest of the Islamic terror groups. How hard is that to understand. Anything other than total surrender by Israel will not bring an end to the conflict. That's the only "Justice" the monster will accept.

[alexjrgreen]

The IRA wasn't operating in a culture where they could convince their own compatriots that it would be OK to parlay a propensity for teens to consider suicide into a socially separating mechanism that would ensure the continued existence of the IRA organization. Hamas is operating in just such a culture. Now try to apply a just parity among individuals in *that* cultural environment.

A people who have no dignity in life have little fear of death.

The level of condoned corruption within Fatah made any peace agreement with them a mirage. Their politicians could hardly stir themselves to provide any kind of social infrastructure for the Palestinian people. Hamas is at once more dangerous, more disciplined and more socially effective, and they don't tolerate corruption.

Israel and the Arab states would apparently rather keep Gaza as a ghetto.

[alexjrgreen]

The IRA's goal was to turn Ireland into a Socialist paradise and satellite of the Soviet Union. Just like the Red Brigades and all the other terrorist/revolutionary groups spawned by the KGB in the '60s and '70s. When the big red bear sugar daddy died so did the IRA.

Not sure where you go for information. Most of the IRA's funding came from the USA. When that started to dry up they moved on to Libya.

Hamas' goal is the destruction of Israel, the subjugation or extermination of the Jews and ultimately Islamic domination over the world. Same as the rest of the Islamic terror groups. How hard is that to understand. Anything other than total surrender by Israel will not bring an end to the conflict. That's the only "Justice" the monster will accept.

Rhetoric rarely survives genuine justice. Give people their dignity back and they stop supporting violence.

[Helius]

A people who have no dignity in life have little fear of death.

Great. A platitude. I'll bet this is just such a platitude (among others) that Hamas tells depressed teenagers, that they might maintain a pool of death, that enhances the likelyhood of their own continued existence as an organization.

The level of condoned corruption within Fatah made any peace agreement with them a mirage. Their politicians could hardly stir themselves to provide any kind of social infrastructure for the Palestinian people. Hamas is at once more dangerous, more disciplined and more socially effective, and they don't tolerate corruption.

Sure, except their own. They share less power with their criminal peers, that is all. You call that "discipline". They're better a centralizing power than Fatah. How is blowing their own depressed teen youths to smithereens not corrupt? "Here son, let me help you... Wear this belt, and you'll wind up in a better place. Never mind that it helps my criminal enterprise...."

Israel and the Arab states would apparently rather keep Gaza as a ghetto.

Disagree. Israel could use the workers. I agree that Hamas would rather keep Gaza as a ghetto under their power, than as a shining city on a hill populated by a culturally rich actualizing Palestinian people *Not* under their control.

[alexjrgreen]

A people who have no dignity in life have little fear of death.

Great. A platitude.

Perhaps, but if Americans had paid more attention to it at the Treaty of Versailles the last century might have turned out rather differently.

I'll bet this is just such a platitude (among others) that Hamas tells depressed teenagers, that they might maintain a pool of death, that enhances the likelyhood of their own continued existence as an organization.

How does this differ in principle from "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"?

The level of condoned corruption within Fatah made any peace agreement with them a mirage. Their politicians could hardly stir themselves to provide any kind of social infrastructure for the Palestinian people. Hamas is at once more dangerous, more disciplined and more socially effective, and they don't tolerate corruption.

Sure, except their own. They share less power with their criminal peers, that is all. You call that "discipline". They're better a centralizing power than Fatah. How is blowing their own depressed teen youths to smithereens not corrupt? "Here son, let me help you... Wear this belt, and you'll wind up in a better place. Never mind that it helps my criminal enterprise...."

Morally bankrupt, perhaps, but hardly corrupt. Not unlike sending young men over the top in WWI.

Demonizing Hamas only blinds you to what they do well. An honest enemy is better than a dishonest one.

Israel and the Arab states would apparently rather keep Gaza as a ghetto.

Disagree. Israel could use the workers. I agree that Hamas would rather keep Gaza as a ghetto under their power, than as a shining city on a hill populated by a culturally rich actualizing Palestinian people *Not* under their control.

Hamas have repeatedly tried to breach the ghetto, but neither the Egyptians nor the Israelis would allow it. If Israel wanted the extra workers it would allow them out. The ones it does allow are deliberately humiliated.

[Skipjack]

Perhaps, but if Americans had paid more attention to it at the Treaty of Versailles the last century might have turned out rather differently.

I am not sure what you want to say with this.
Can you please specify. I mean I generally agree, but I am not sure that I like the context with dignity and all that.

[MSimon]

If the Palis stopped practicing apartheid they might get somewhere. Gaza is Judenrein. Israel has a lot of Palestinians. Especially those gay Palestinians who fear for their lives from the kindly Hamas.

I could show you pictures of the hangings but I had to get a guy banned for doing similar crap. You will have to find them on your own.

==

http://www.israel21c.org/technology/isr ... oexistence

Now if Fatah refrains from killing anyone working with the Israelis it might have broader implications.

==

And you might want to explain why the Palis of Gaza destroyed the greenhouses Bill Gates bought for them. I don't think he is going to be investing again in Pali enterprises. At least not any time soon.

==

Yes. The Palestinians are humiliated. Whipped by a bunch of dhimmi Jews. It was not supposed to be that way. And you will be surprised to know that until the start of the first Intifada I thought the Israelis were being unreasonable. And then came the blowing up of kids in pizza parlors.

Suicide bombing is not a Western ideal. But it did have one good effect. It separated the Israeli and Palestinian economies which were integrating. Good for the people. Bad for those who feared the rise of alternative power centers. So they used the perfect tactic to end it. Kill their own kids and make the Israelis clamp down.

==

My attitude now is that if the Palestinians want war so badly they should be accommodated from time to time.

==

And it is not just the Israelis. Egypt, which has a border with Gaza, is intent on keeping the Gazans pent up in their territory. Not much brotherly love there.

I guess they didn't care much for the Gazan tactic of attacking them.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/950383.html

Palestinians. A charming people to be sure.

[MSimon]

Palestinian alarm clock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWBA3TQ43M8

Suicide bombing may have been good for the Pali aristocrats. It was bad PR in America. Which is really the key to a Pali victory.

[seedload]

Palestinians. A charming people to be sure.

Good news. Mohammed is no longer the most popular name for new babies in Palestinian Territories. Bad news. The 2009 most popular name for new babies in Palestinian Territories is "Jihad".

[alexjrgreen]

Perhaps, but if Americans had paid more attention to it at the Treaty of Versailles the last century might have turned out rather differently.

I am not sure what you want to say with this.
Can you please specify. I mean I generally agree, but I am not sure that I like the context with dignity and all that.

nothing will ever be gained by stripping the vanquished of all dignity.

http://www.helium.com/items/450906-euro ... versailles