Separation Processes to Deal With Reactor Products

Discuss the technical details of an "open source" community-driven design of a polywell reactor.

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MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Extraction from sea water might be cheaper.

BTW a lot of gold coming on the market would cause a kind of monetary inflation for those who think gold is a store of value.

Think Spain when they got all that "free" gold from the Americas.

Or what happened to aluminum prices when chemical extraction was replaced by electrical extraction.

In reality the most valuable product of BFRs is electrical energy.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Average Joe
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Ok. Now you've done it.

Post by Average Joe »

I haven't posted anything to this forum before, but I'm visiting multiple times a day waiting for that "BIG" announcement. But this time you've gone too far.

Can you imagine the reaction if EMCC comes out with an announcement that they've just solved the world's energy crisis, global warming, major funding of radical islamists, fresh water for desert countries and, oh by the way, the non-radioactive by-product of the reactor is the production of platinum and gold! Its just too much to think about. What's next, a cure for cancer?

Please God let this work.

By the way MSimon, I really enjoy your posts and contributions, and your other blog as well.
Joe

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Thank you Joe.

You might also like "Dean Esmay" where Tall Dave posts.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Brent
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Post by Brent »

I have been trying to develop a way to separate the reaction products using the separation method described by Simon in the third post in this thread, but since then, I have hit a wall trying to determine the phase behavior of boron. There seems to be LITTLE thermodynamic data available for this element in the literature.

In theory, I could find some sort of cookie cutter formula and hope it works. But unfortunately that's about the same as assuming that the the Polywell is filled with millions of little gremlins that do the work for us. Now, I did find a paper by Panday and Ganguly about the measurement of other metal vapors such as Aluminum, Copper, and others. (See: Measurement of Monoatomic Vapor Concentrations of Some Elements by Atomic Absorption Spectrophotometry: Cu, Ag, Au, Mn, and Al)
Aluminum is close to Boron on the periodic table, so it may be the closest to Boron in behavior. If all else fails, maybe it can provide a gross approximation.

What I need to verify an formula or correlation is phase behavior data. Preferably in the form of a boron phase diagram. But if that isn't available, maybe a sublimation curve would work (unless of course we have liquid boron).

In conclusion, in order to process unreacted boron the phase behavior needs to be understood with experimental data. Otherwise, there will a bunch of guessing as to how the unreacted boron will behave when it exits the Polywell reactor.

Any suggestions?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Brent,

I have seen the sublimation data (found it on the net. I posted it some where and will have to look it up) and the curve is fairly steep. Basically the vapor pressure approaches zero below about 2000K.

Vapor Pressure: 4.6 x 10-4 to 8.5 x 10-3 mm @2200 oK

from: http://www.espimetals.com/metals/catboron.htm

Vapor pressure P/Pa 1 10 100 1 k 10 k 100 k
at T/K 2348 2562 2822 3141 3545 4072

from: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 011AAeGMq9
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Brent
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Post by Brent »

Does anyone have knowledge of phase equilibria, and wish to review a 27 page tutorial?

Brent
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Post by Brent »

I created a tutorial which describes phase behavior of a system consisting of three substances: hydrogen, helium, and boron. The main objective of this tutorial is to aid in discovery of how much, if any, boron condenses out of the gaseous phase. The same methods used in this tutorial may also be used to explore the vaporization of boron. Please note that more work may need to be done on Appendix A, and possibly other parts. I value comments and suggestions.

The link is here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=0961 ... 759cad9414

Hopefully this will be helpful to the open source Polywell.

This post is also posted at http://theageofboron.blogspot.com

drmike
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Post by drmike »

Nice work Brent! I'll have to dig through my chemistry books to make sure I actually understand fugacity...

Torulf2
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Post by Torulf2 »

It has been a tread on this site with a link to some work on boron coating for tokamaks.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Brent wrote:I created a tutorial which describes phase behavior of a system consisting of three substances: hydrogen, helium, and boron. The main objective of this tutorial is to aid in discovery of how much, if any, boron condenses out of the gaseous phase. The same methods used in this tutorial may also be used to explore the vaporization of boron. Please note that more work may need to be done on Appendix A, and possibly other parts. I value comments and suggestions.

The link is here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=0961 ... 759cad9414

Hopefully this will be helpful to the open source Polywell.

This post is also posted at http://theageofboron.blogspot.com
Added to the sidebar at IEC Fusion Technology
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Brent
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:25 pm

Post by Brent »

Torulf2 wrote:It has been a tread on this site with a link to some work on boron coating for tokamaks.
Have you found this thread? I tried to find it. It sounds interesting.

Brent
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Post by Brent »

Thanks MSimon and DrMike. Theory agreeing with experiments would be lovely.

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