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how about MOS2 as coiling

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:42 am
by wacker.popeln
Lets use Powdermetallurgy and grow single Chrystals out of MOS2 or try Tungsten disulfide too. thats 50bucks a pound or 80bucks a pound.

also thinkable:
lets try a dense cold plasma and flush it through cooling all thetime outside

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:42 pm
by D Tibbets
Huh?

I don't know what you are talking about.
Is it the magnetic coil windings? As far as heat tolerance in these briefly operating research machines that are making low levels of fusion, and with probably modest Bremsstruhlung and other radiative heating concerns, the heating comes almost completely from the Ohmic (or inductive if you prefer) heating of the coil wires.This is directly related to the electrical conductive properties of the wires. Copper is good, cold copper is better, higher conductive graphene compounds may be better yet and superconductors are best. Tungsten is bad (especially as it heats up). It may tolerate more heat but I doubt it would have a beneficial balance between heat tolerance and resistive heating. You also have to consider the heat tolerance of the insulating material between the wires.

The heating of the chamber, magnet coil casings by the plasma is trivial in these machines compared to the heat buildup within the magnets. And I believe this is not limiting the run times to a few milliseconds. The road block is the population of neutral atoms/ molecules that are not contained at all- thus there is no density difference inside or outside of the magrid. The Pashin breakdown / arching is the main culprit that ends the test and this is directly related to the density of these neutrals. Just like the neutrals inside the magrid they can become ionized, mostly through collisions with charged particles, and through a cascade of secondary ionizations build up a population of charged particles that carries enough current that a run away current growth occurs- a spark if you will. The battery/ potential well is quickly drained. This same process occurs occurs inside the magrid- it is desired, but this is a different environment. The charged particles are containd to densities several times times greater (the Wiffleball effect) and the magnetic fields and carefully shaped surfaces impead the current flow. Outside the magrid this 'insulation' is much less. You need a relatively large puff of neutral gas to provide the density of contained ions. Itis not a perfect conversion, so some of the neutrals will leak out, and this is the problem. There are workarounds- larger magrids, ion guns, very fast vacuum pumping, etc, but it is a challenge and there are possibly other problems introduced with changes.

Dan Tibbets

hmm

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:57 pm
by wacker.popeln
i dont know what you mean wiht the neutrons. as far as i know the Helium thats dissolved in hte p-b fusion are very energy rich and collide wiht coiling and degrade it and heat it.

MOS2 is conductive AND heatproof. its a perfect solution.
i dont see a reason why not to cool it wiht liqudi helium or water and use that steamcycle further so the loss of heat is reused energy.

MOS2 takes i think 1100 degrees Celsius but i dont knwo how hte curve of its conductivity looks.
its affordable enough.

Graphene requires to operate in double layers else its ineffective. Electrons move like a wave and htats why you need 2 layers of graphene per coil but i doubt graphene can stand the currents necessary.

About Protons moving through it i dont even know but question it.

im more worried about polywell radiatiing gamma rays and xrays.
When electrons get destrcuted it will radiate.

ebcasue htere is bremsstrahlung.

making a centrifuge wiht a magentic field, making uranium plutnium plasma and cenitrufiging out the nuclei nad using electonrless fissile material saves about 40percent radiation in nukes and genreally

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:26 pm
by Betruger
Polybooze

whyso negative

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:30 pm
by wacker.popeln
Betruger wrote:Polybooze


why so negative betruEger

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:39 pm
by wacker.popeln
D Tibbets wrote:The road block is the population of neutral atoms/ molecules that are not contained at all- thus there is no density difference inside or outside of the magrid. The Pashin breakdown / arching is the main culprit that ends the test and this is directly related to the density of these neutrals. Just like the neutrals inside the magrid they can become ionized, mostly through collisions with charged particles, and through a cascade of secondary ionizations build up a population of charged particles that carries enough current that a run away current growth occurs- a spark if you will. The battery/ potential well is quickly drained.

Dan Tibbets


ah i get it.
the nuclei catch electrons from teh cloud on the way and leave wiht them when enough of them cumulate and hte magnetic field is too weak to stop em

and this is direct losses of energy you put in wiht putting in electrons and hte nculei

right?

it would discharge as ionised boron or ionised hydrogen

mos hafnium

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:26 pm
by wacker.popeln
does anyone know hte conductivity of
MOS2 wiht Hafnium?

does it beat graphene?

at worst we flush mercury throug hthe coils at a high pump rate

Re: hmm

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:06 pm
by Roger
wacker.popeln wrote:becasue there is bremsstrahlung.



Interesting claim. Got any back up? Citations?

My understanding about how to create bremsstrahlung is you have to have energetic/fast/hot electrons that are also dense. And in a Polywell you have to have a large enough population of fast/dense electrons to have a chance of having bremsstrahlung dominating the process to the point where net power cannot be achieved.

Re: hmm

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:02 pm
by wacker.popeln
Roger wrote:
wacker.popeln wrote:becasue there is bremsstrahlung.


...in a Polywell you have to have a large enough population of fast/dense electrons to have a chance of having bremsstrahlung dominating the process to the point where net power cannot be achieved.


EXACTLY!
the stronger the fields get
the more dense the cloud gets
and the more fuel or helium bumps em and or gets in the way

luck is that the p-b catches some of hte electrons and dont destruct em, but hten they discharge leaving.



ido wonder if MOS2-wiht hafnium can beat graphene, (With or without abit tantalum for hte conductivity in heat and or niobium for magfleld strenght)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:43 pm
by Roger
But Wacker, in a potential well the electrons are dense and slow/cool.

Please explain where you see dense/energetic electrons in a Polywell?

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:06 pm
by ladajo
Somewhere in between the middle and the shell. More or less.

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:52 pm
by wacker.popeln
Roger wrote:But Wacker, in a potential well the electrons are dense and slow/cool.

Please explain where you see dense/energetic electrons in a Polywell?


there will always be electrons moving around hte magfield reentering some. them reentering fast hitting a dense cloud on outer electron ball.

the fusion product hitting them super energetic - the more dense the cloud is
the fusion energy itself (!) might crack some electrons in the center ball also

not to get offtopic.
does anyone know hte conductivity of mos2 wiht hafnium? with or without niobium (which should reduce hte current necessary for a certain tesla field)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:29 pm
by Roger
ladajo wrote:Somewhere in between the middle and the shell. More or less.


I know, but I want Wacker to follow the logic chain, somewhere between the spikey bag potential well and the shell means probably not a large population of electrons. And if were not talking about a large population of electrons, then were talking about only a little brem.

IIRC R Bussard mentioned there might be a little brem in PB-11 fusion, not a lot.

Side note, what was the reason for the lopsided fuel ratio, what was it 8 to 1? P vs B11..

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:13 am
by hanelyp
The boron ions are responsible for most brem in an even mix p-B11 plasma. Shifting the ratio towards more p and less B-11 reduces the brem to fusion power ratio.

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:59 pm
by Roger
hanelyp wrote:The boron ions are responsible for most brem in an even mix p-B11 plasma. Shifting the ratio towards more p and less B-11 reduces the brem to fusion power ratio.


Thank you hanelyp, do remember what Bussard/Nebel said about the ratio, my memory is thinking 8 to 1 ?