Why people are so optimistical to Polywell?

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:19 pm

chrismb wrote:What do you think beam emittance is?

I think you have already seen wikipedia.
As I understand the main source of your education. What do you wait for?
My explanations?

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:26 pm

chrismb wrote:Why is there a technical term for something that doesn't happen?

I missed, sorry. What will happen? Technical term? Or growth of emittance?

If growth - when? During or/and after focusing? Or when?

chrismb · Post by **chrismb** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:34 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote:What do you wait for?
My explanations?

Yes. I wait for you to explain beam emittance to us.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:36 pm

chrismb wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:What do you wait for?
My explanations?
Yes. I wait for you to explain beam emittance to us.

Why? Are you not satisfied with wiki?
Or my English is more acceptable for you?

chrismb · Post by **chrismb** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:44 pm

Beause we're waiting to see how you can describe beam emittance growth without also describing what will happen in your invention.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:56 pm

chrismb wrote:Beause we're waiting to see how you can describe beam emittance growth without also describing what will happen in your invention.

I am describing very simply. The mechanism interfering emittance growth is Bremsstrahlung.
Here is a little about inventor of electronic cooling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Budker in which particles pass their radial momentums to electrons and they then radiate that thermal energy
As you can see this is your lovely wiki.

Also his paper "Relativistic Stabilised Electron Beam". As I know the last was not translated into English.

chrismb · Post by **chrismb** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:04 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote:
chrismb wrote:Beause we're waiting to see how you can describe beam emittance growth without also describing what will happen in your invention.
I am describing very simply. The mechanism interfering emittance growth is Bremsstrahlung.
Here is a little about inventor of electronic cooling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Budker in which particles pass their radial momentums to electrons and they then radiate that thermal energy
As you can see this is your lovely wiki.

Also his paper "Relativistic Stabilised Electron Beam". As I know the last was not translated into English.

Electron cooling has little to do with beam emittance, excepting, perhaps, that it is a charge-neutral process so reduces space charge. Electron cooling reduces ion velocity-space diffusion by running electrons at the same velocity (and the same direction) as ions (which is not at all as you described in your 'invention'.)

Please describe beam emittance, in your own words.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:01 pm

chrismb wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:
chrismb wrote:Beause we're waiting to see how you can describe beam emittance growth without also describing what will happen in your invention.
I am describing very simply. The mechanism interfering emittance growth is Bremsstrahlung.
Here is a little about inventor of electronic cooling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Budker in which particles pass their radial momentums to electrons and they then radiate that thermal energy
As you can see this is your lovely wiki.

Also his paper "Relativistic Stabilised Electron Beam". As I know the last was not translated into English.
Electron cooling has little to do with beam emittance, excepting, perhaps, that it is a charge-neutral process so reduces space charge. Electron cooling reduces ion velocity-space diffusion by running electrons at the same velocity (and the same direction) as ions (which is not at all as you described in your 'invention'.)

Please describe beam emittance, in your own words.

Charge neutralizing has not any relation to cooling.

Only radial momentums interchanging via collisions or/and common electromagnetic field.
Yes, for high energy particles beam electron cooling was proposed to direct at the same direction because the currents, densities are low and consequently self-field is weak. So, only collisions and when coherent velocities are equal (relative equal zero) collision cross section is higher.

His second proposal is to used high current relativistic electron beams for some applications and cooling there is via Bremsstrahlung as self-magnetic field is strong and Lorenz force is high for relativistic electrons. That's shown in his second paper.

chrismb · Post by **chrismb** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:19 pm

Please describe beam emittance, in your own words.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:22 pm

chrismb wrote:Please describe beam emittance, in your own words.

Describe that yourself and then read yourself.
I am going to sleep.
Good night.

chrismb · Post by **chrismb** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:25 pm

Beam emittance is where streams of mono-energetic ions tend to diverge because there is no magnetic effect between ions moving at the same speed so their space-charge causes electrostatic repulsion within the beam.

chrismb · Post by **chrismb** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:26 pm

I have described it myself, as you have suggested.

I have read it myself, as you suggested. It seems to say your invention won't work.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:33 am

chrismb wrote:I have described it myself, as you have suggested.

I have read it myself, as you suggested. It seems to say your invention won't work.

Thanks, but your opinion is less interesting for me by the reason of your lack of your knowledge.

By the way I have recall clear even for you explanation why the non-neutral plasma can be compressed in a radial direction: In the frame of reference connected with electrons plasma is charged positively and in ions’ frame - negative.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:42 am

chrismb wrote:Beam emittance is where streams of mono-energetic ions tend to diverge because there is no magnetic effect between ions moving at the same speed so their space-charge causes electrostatic repulsion within the beam.

Mr. Half-educated, the repulsion forces of space charge are weaken as square of relativistic (Lorenz) factor. So, if you have electron beam with factor equal to 10 corresponding to KE of about 5 MeV, repulsive forces in our frame of reference will be weaken 100 fold.
And even a small amount of ions (here I do not talk aboution beam - only cloud) can dramatically compress that beam in radial direction.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:14 am

Joseph Chikva wrote:
chrismb wrote:Beam emittance is where streams of mono-energetic ions tend to diverge because there is no magnetic effect between ions moving at the same speed so their space-charge causes electrostatic repulsion within the beam.
Mr. Half-educated, the repulsion forces of space charge are weaken as square of relativistic (Lorenz) factor. So, if you have electron beam with factor equal to 10 that correspondents to KE of about 5 MeV, repulsive forces in our frame of reference will be weaken 100 fold.
And even a small amount of ions (here I do not talk aboution beam - only cloud) can dramatically compress that beam in radial direction.

Do you have a link for an article on that? I had never heard that one before.